Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

McFlash said:

I've said all along, 6th would be a successful season for us.
Nothing's changed.

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of course things have changed. we are better than expected and man utd are much worse. finishing below utd from this position wouldn't be success, it would be a massive L.

Blake Griffin said:

of course things have changed. we are better than expected and man utd are much worse. finishing below utd from this position wouldn't be success, it would be a massive L.

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Maybe I should have said that my opinion of a successful season for us hasn't changed?
At the start of a season, you can't really take into consideration what other teams may do, only what you think will be progress for us.

Do you think we'll finish below United this season?
I think it'll go to the wire between us and Villa but even if they pip us to fourth, we'll still have done better than I expected, all things considered.

Albertbarich said:

I'm finding the overreaction to absolutely everything that happens more and more tiresome.

And it's not a spurs fan thing , seems to be a football thing in general. And it's not just the negatives either. We can win one game and the same people who blow their minds if we lose will then go just as over the top the other way.

I really don't need 3 days of analysis of one referees decision and I don't need to read people declaring that this manager isn't working because we conceded one goal to a set piece.

There are definitely things to work on but we're also definitely moving in the right direction and that's about as good as you get in transition seasons like this.

As you say patience has all but disappeared from supporters

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I think that you've hit the nail on the head with that post.

McFlash said:

I've said all along, 6th would be a successful season for us.
Nothing's changed.

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Not with Chelsea/Utd/Newcastle all being very poor.

It will be a missed opportunity if we don't finish at least 5th.

McFlash said:

Maybe I should have said that my opinion of a successful season for us hasn't changed?
At the start of a season, you can't really take into consideration what other teams may do, only what you think will be progress for us.

Do you think we'll finish below United this season?
I think it'll go to the wire between us and Villa but even if they pip us to fourth, we'll still have done better than I expected, all things considered.

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why rigidly stick to an opinion from 10 months ago though when you now have a lot more information and evidence available to you? for example i didn't have high expectations for vicario going into the season. he has massively surpassed what i thought we were getting, if he were to now come back down to my original expectations then i wouldn't just shrug and say well that's what i expected him to be .. i'd be rightly disappointed no?

i don't think utd have it in them to put a run together to overtake us so it would take us shitting the bed for it to happen, which to me would leave the season feeling like a failed one. it wouldn't necessarily mean the overall journey is in jeopardy but it would still be a bit of a set back.

TOLBINY said:

I always felt it was the players that let Ranieri down 2nd season, the results were poor but as soon as he left and Shakespeare took over results improved (I think they beat Liverpool in his first game in charge?)

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Also he didn't have a squad for Europe so he still needed to build there. Once they had those extra European games they really struggled as they had a strong first team but not much else. They also got lucky with not much injuries that season. Ange has to build for a European season too really and this season had the worst luck with injuries. The Leicester winning season was a one off as well since none of the top teams were at the top and going through some transition. So Ranieri did wonders on year one but I wouldn't say he had everything in place yet, certainly not for a European season. I guess it depends what the aim is but I would say for sure if you want to challenge for titles it takes a few years to build.

Albertbarich said:

I'm finding the overreaction to absolutely everything that happens more and more tiresome.

And it's not a spurs fan thing , seems to be a football thing in general. And it's not just the negatives either. We can win one game and the same people who blow their minds if we lose will then go just as over the top the other way.

I really don't need 3 days of analysis of one referees decision and I don't need to read people declaring that this manager isn't working because we conceded one goal to a set piece.

There are definitely things to work on but we're also definitely moving in the right direction and that's about as good as you get in transition seasons like this.

As you say patience has all but disappeared from supporters

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Also I say this as someone who when we lose I just don't want to think aboyt football until the next game so maybe it's my own mental health but I really find the need for hot takes on every little thing that happens so OTT at times.

Albertbarich said:

I'm finding the overreaction to absolutely everything that happens more and more tiresome.

And it's not a spurs fan thing , seems to be a football thing in general. And it's not just the negatives either. We can win one game and the same people who blow their minds if we lose will then go just as over the top the other way.

I really don't need 3 days of analysis of one referees decision and I don't need to read people declaring that this manager isn't working because we conceded one goal to a set piece.

There are definitely things to work on but we're also definitely moving in the right direction and that's about as good as you get in transition seasons like this.

As you say patience has all but disappeared from supporters

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100% mate, its both a football fan thing and a modern society thing, everything is overanalysed and overthought and over sensitised because its all now now now, no one has any patience and less and less can people take a step back and see a bigger picture, HOWEVER this is also a football fan thing as football fans lets be honest often aren't the smartest bunch and also frankly love to moan, football was traditionally an outlet for the working class so they go to the pub after a long day at work and discuss and debate and often moan about their team, their manager, their style of play etc etc and tbh that is fine its a release for them/us which is a good thing, but if you or I are expecting rational reasoning all the time we won't get it, especially when you add in social media and modern society.

A prime example was last season when Man.City were losing at home at half time 1-0 I think it was and they got massively boo'd off the pitch by a large majority of their fans, fans who have been treated to astonishing success and beautiful football for the last 10 yrs and especially the last 5-6 under Pep but the second those standards aren't kept up the vast majority throw their toys out the pram and boo their team, call it mad, call it entitled, call it what you like, I also find it tiring and ridiculous but at the same time it will likely never change and with modern society how it is it will unfortunately probably only get worse.

This is why at times if/when a decent majority on here start to overreact with OTT negativity and i'm not talking about small valid critiques or criticisms but full blown ridiculous OTT rants and statements, I feel a need to call it out, state a bit of perspective and see how things go.

The beautiful thing is that Ange is actually the perfect antidote to modern society, take when that journalist tried to make a big deal out of Maddison basically having some banter with the Bournemouth crowd away from home earlier this season, Ange just calmly but also strongly and assertively responded to the journalist and said "mate are you being serious, come on it was nothing, it was just a bit of playfulness, next question", similarly when he gets Q's which try to create a drama out of nothing he is excellent at calming and playing it down not just to play the media well but because he is old school tough mentality and he knows that in modern society people have less patience and less perspective and context that in the past so he rightfully needs to bring things back down to earth regularly and cut through the noise and drama.

Another example is the media trying to make out that 4th place is such a big deal or every result is such a drama when Ange consistently responds by saying "I don't see it like that, for me its about the bigger picture of if we are going in the right direction and laying the foundations for success and bigger things" and he's 100% spot on, if you didn't have good football people who do give time and can see the long-term likely outcome and direction then, Ferguson would've never had his legacy at Man.U and more recently, Klopp, Pep and Arteta would've all be sacked within a season or 2 at their respective clubs for not immediately winning every game and winning titles straight away.

As of now I can see that Ange is guiding us in the right direction and as long as we give him time and continue to sufficiently back him in the transfer windows to keep shaping the squad to what he needs then we will continue to grow and improve as a team and that is good enough for me.

mark87 said:

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Voted for Ange ofc but Arteta or Bournemouth will get it with those results, we lost 3-0 to Fulham in our set of 4 so don't think Ange will get this one but based on having the coolest accent and not being a nob then Ange should beat all the other 3 hands down, especially vs gerny Klopp and legohead.

Trix said:

It's abundantly clear we need to somehow tighten up at the back. We are one goal off what City have scored this season but have concede 16 more. We are always going to give up chances with the way Ange wants us to play but set pieces for instance are costing us far more than they should be. 10 of the 44 goals we've given up this season have come from dead ball situations. We are 6th in the league as far as goals conceded from set pieces and those above us are the bottom 5. Eradicating just half of those probably see's us comfortably above Villa.

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Set pieces and penalties would make a huge difference - we are on -5 net pens , Arsenal and Liverpool are on +7, even Villa are +4. We can be a little rash at the back so the 6 conceded can be improved but the fact we’ve only got one is ludicrous, and that bad luck should revert to the mean.

If we cut 5-6 goals from set pieces and another 5-6 improvement in pens we’d be closer to the top 3 than Villa for sure

Let's face it the reason a lot of fans react the way they do is because of the last 5 years. The tension has built up and even though the football is better now there's still a lack of patience. It's nothing to do with Ange, it's the last 3 managers or even Poch at the end where we were looking to be going downhill despite the CL run. If Ange arrived after Poch I'm sure there would be far less overreacting going on this season. People aren't seeing it as season one under Ange, they're seeing it as about season 6 since we last looked a real force.

mil1lion said:

Also he didn't have a squad for Europe so he still needed to build there. Once they had those extra European games they really struggled as they had a strong first team but not much else. They also got lucky with not much injuries that season. Ange has to build for a European season too really and this season had the worst luck with injuries. The Leicester winning season was a one off as well since none of the top teams were at the top and going through some transition. So Ranieri did wonders on year one but I wouldn't say he had everything in place yet, certainly not for a European season. I guess it depends what the aim is but I would say for sure if you want to challenge for titles it takes a few years to build.

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Yes for sure - I was being a bit facetious about Ranieri at Leicester - he / they are the exception not the rule.

The likelihood of European football next season is one of my concerns - not having to play mid week this season has given Ange more time on the training pitch and the players more recovery time / less fatigue (although I have seen other opinions on SC stating that more actual games may have helped progress).

It will be interersting to see how we cope.

Blake Griffin said:

why rigidly stick to an opinion from 10 months ago though when you now have a lot more information and evidence available to you?

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Because it's not something like an opinion if a player is any good or not, it's an expectation of where we would be this season.
A new, completely different style manager and half a new team.
The start of a rebuild of style and philosophy.

And looking around the league this season, I still think anywhere from 6th up will have been a decent season. Then next season we aim higher.
There are ups and downs in every season, along with surprises.

Don't get me wrong, after the first 10 games I was beginning to dream of winning the title but realistically, I knew that wasn't going to happen.

I do miss how we played up until Sons disallowed goal to go 2 up against Chelsea

Wonder if we will ever get that back or was it just the football being so bad the previous season along with teams not figuring us out meant we dominant

Really felt the best I've felt in years watching spurs when we dominating Chelsea that day

I do miss how we played up until Sons disallowed goal to go 2 up against Chelsea

bubble07 said:

Wonder if we will ever get that back or was it just the football being so bad the previous season along with teams not figuring us out meant we dominant

Really felt the best I've felt in years watching spurs when we dominating Chelsea that day

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We played like that the first 20 mins against West Ham. We have to just maintain it. But yes i agree, i felt like we couldnt be beaten

Trix said:

It's abundantly clear we need to somehow tighten up at the back. We are one goal off what City have scored this season but have concede 16 more. We are always going to give up chances with the way Ange wants us to play but set pieces for instance are costing us far more than they should be. 10 of the 44 goals we've given up this season have come from dead ball situations. We are 6th in the league as far as goals conceded from set pieces and those above us are the bottom 5. Eradicating just half of those probably see's us comfortably above Villa.

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This is proven here:



Considering a big chunk of our xGA is coming from set pieces, we've clearly tightened up defensively in open play. So we need to sort out our set piece defending big time because it's clearly the biggest difference between us and the top 3 defensively at the moment.

bubble07 said:

I do miss how we played up until Sons disallowed goal to go 2 up against Chelsea

Wonder if we will ever get that back or was it just the football being so bad the previous season along with teams not figuring us out meant we dominant

Really felt the best I've felt in years watching spurs when we dominating Chelsea that day

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Go back and watch Palace away and Fulham at home (prior to Chelsea) and see if you hoenstly feel we were playing such wonderful football (yes you can pick out some great moves that led to chances / goals - but you can do that with previous managers). From Maddison goal v Fulham (56 mins) to the end of the Palalce game we had one shot on target.

The media fell in love with Ange and his front foot possesion based "we'll have a go" philosophy - which they turned into an "exciting to watch" narrative that fans latched onto, and I argree, it is an exciting philosophy.

Albertbarich said:

I'm finding the overreaction to absolutely everything that happens more and more tiresome.

And it's not a spurs fan thing , seems to be a football thing in general. And it's not just the negatives either. We can win one game and the same people who blow their minds if we lose will then go just as over the top the other way.

I really don't need 3 days of analysis of one referees decision and I don't need to read people declaring that this manager isn't working because we conceded one goal to a set piece.

There are definitely things to work on but we're also definitely moving in the right direction and that's about as good as you get in transition seasons like this.

As you say patience has all but disappeared from supporters

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The media have a lot to answer for - they drive the hype (ultra postive or ultra negative) becuase that's what gets them attention / interaction. Too many fans readily accept media narratives that then get repeated and so become beliefs .

Nick-TopSpursMan said:

This is proven here:



Considering a big chunk of our xGA is coming from set pieces, we've clearly tightened up defensively in open play. So we need to sort out our set piece defending big time because it's clearly the biggest difference between us and the top 3 defensively at the moment.

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Not that I'm a fan of XG but I'm sure I've read we are top of the charts as far as XGA from set pieces.