Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

TOLBINY said:

For context I believe we had European football to contend with in those seasons so more games, more fatigue and less time for training / perfecting ideas and patterns of play.

Also this season Utd, Newcastle and to a degree Chelsea underperforming (given squad value) meaning less competition for top 4 - we need to take advantage.

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Yeah totally agree about Europe, and also the fact we went out of both cup conceptions this season very early.

I think a few teams underperform every season though and other teams do better than expected. Newcastle only really came into contention last season, and this season Aston Villa have come into contention. On the other hand Brighton looked a real threat last year but have dropped off a little. Arsenal have become stronger the past couple of seasons than previously. Man U have been all over the place during the last ten years. Chelsea too have had significant ups and downs from winning the league with Mourinho to sacking him to winning the Champions league with Tuchel to struggling to win a match with Potter.

Tucker said:

Not sure what game you were watching. The second half was characterised by us losing the ball in the middle of the park, and Everton getting in behind us.

If you thought that performance was a demonstration of “control” I’d hate to see us when you think we didn’t.

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Right back at you

I think we definitely had more control yesterday when Sarr came on and I wasn’t particularly nervous whilst watching the match. The worry for me was giving away a goal in a set piece during the last ten or fifteen minutes and that’s exactly what transpired.

Styopa said:

I think we definitely had more control yesterday when Sarr came on and I wasn’t particularly nervous whilst watching the match. The worry for me was giving away a goal in a set piece during the last ten or fifteen minutes and that’s exactly what transpired.

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Yeah but giving away set pieces is part of the reason people like me are saying we lacked control because our passing and ball retention was so poor that we were always having to dive in or block things which led to unnecessary corners and free kicks. If we were in control, that is if we retained the ball properly they don't win free kicks or corners so readily.

Nayim60yards said:

Yeah but giving away set pieces is part of the reason people like me are saying we lacked control because our passing and ball retention was so poor that we were always having to dive in or block things which led to unnecessary corners and free kicks. If we were in control, that is if we retained the ball properly they don't win free kicks or corners so readily.

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Yeah that’s true. And the free kick that led to the goal was particularly sloppy. I thought we did have more control when Sarr came on but as I mentioned elsewhere we overall struggled to control the match in the middle of the park.

We are so tactically naive and weak at times it's ridiculous. I won't buy into Ange's plan until we become defensively solid. Needing 3 goals to win each game and defending desperately all game is no way forward.
And what exactly was the Hojbjerg substitution all about?

Nayim60yards said:

Yeah but giving away set pieces is part of the reason people like me are saying we lacked control because our passing and ball retention was so poor that we were always having to dive in or block things which led to unnecessary corners and free kicks. If we were in control, that is if we retained the ball properly they don't win free kicks or corners so readily.

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That was one annoying thing throughout actually, gave away so many niggly fouls, time after time. Like you say, due to a lack of control over the game too.

Athenspur said:

We are so tactically naive and weak at times it's ridiculous. I won't buy into Ange's plan until we become defensively solid. Needing 3 goals to win each game and defending desperately all game is no way forward.
And what exactly was the Hojbjerg substitution all about?

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I'd argue we lost two points yesterday mainly because Ange strayed from his plan/philosophy.

Athenspur said:

We are so tactically naive and weak at times it's ridiculous. I won't buy into Ange's plan until we become defensively solid. Needing 3 goals to win each game and defending desperately all game is no way forward.
And what exactly was the Hojbjerg substitution all about?

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fuck me.

We are solidly in the top-5 - in a transition season that saw us lose our leading goal scorer on the eve of the season. We played 10+ matches with 4 FBs across the back line. Our CM combos have been in flux since the end of November, we've spent January without our current leading scorer, and two key CMs.

I think we are going to be ok, once we get settled...

Big Ange is still getting to know his players and what they can offer him in terms of what he needs. This was always a transitional season. The talk of a title is nice but we weren't going to win it.

However I love the fact that he's not writing it off and is aiming for it, that's exactly what I want to hear from my manager, as it instills belief and confidence in the players and the fans that it is possible if we play the way we want to and execute it properly.

The transition for this season is more about the mentality shift for everyone involved, players, fans and the media. Ange has to get everyone on board to believe in this project long term, and I think he has done that.

He is implementing his system with young players who are also still adapting and growing each game. His style was never going to be 100% efficient this season, as there were always going to he periods of absolutely beautiful dominating football and also periods of growing pains, which we are seeing. Let these young guys grow and get better as a team and get to know each other better for the rest of this season.

We are definitely onto something big going forward and Ange is definitely the man to take us to glory and get these guys performing at a higher level. All we need is another attacker who can dribble and take men on, someone like Bakayoko or Williams and we will be cooking.

Have some patience and trust the process, Rome wasn't built in a day, we will be a real force next season.

Bluto Blutarsky said:

fuck me.

We are solidly in the top-5 - in a transition season that saw us lose our leading goal scorer on the eve of the season. We played 10+ matches with 4 FBs across the back line. Our CM combos have been in flux since the end of November, we've spent January without our current leading scorer, and two key CMs.

I think we are going to be ok, once we get settled...

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Fully agree. Also worth considering that in the last five games, we've actually secured one more point than Arsenal or Villa.

It felt to me like a long time since we ended a match on top in terms of having chances to score late on and having the opponents pinned into their own half, I also felt that overall our game management hasn't been a strength this season so I revisited all of our games so far to see if the feeling was borne out. In reverse order: Everton late chances and then a late equaliser, Brentford Vic tipping a shot over the bar at the end to keep the win, Man City late goal conceded then City put on a clinic of game management, Man Utd McTominay missed a free header, Burnley Amdouni chance to equalise deep in stoppage time, Bournemouth were all over us at the end of that game after Scott's late goal, Brighton we were well on top after scoring two and Hojbjerg hitting the post after being 0-4 down at one point, Everton nearly equalised through Danjuma at the death, Forest hit the post in stoppage time but we were down to 10 men in that one, Newcastle had the final word by scoring late in our 4-1 win, West Ham we were chasing an equaliser so we pushed but created little, Man City we scored a late equaliser but still gave them a chance to equalise when Grealish was sent clear, thankfully the ref stopped his progress, Villa we ended the game on top frantically seeking a deserved equaliser which never came, Wolves and Chelsea you know about those ones, Palace we conceded late to Ayew and then Franca had a great chance to equalise which he sliced wide, Fulham we lost control of the game and they came into it towards the end without scoring, Luton we were down to ten men and I think that was our best performance in terms of game management we took the ball into areas they didn't want it and really controlled the game at the end, Liverpool we had all the ball against nine men and forced Matip into an own goal, Arsenal we were stronger at the end of that game and there were no scares late on, Sheff Utd we scored two very late goals to win it after pushing and pushing, Burnley had the final word with a late second goal after we totally dominated them, Fulham in the cup Jiminez headed over deep in stoppage time, Bournemouth away was excellently controlled from start to finish and we were pushing for a third at the end of that game, Man Utd had a couple of late half chances as they forlornly chased a 0-2 deficit, Brentford away it was mostly us looking to win the game at the end.

So out of 26 matches (23 league games and 3 cup games) we have had around 15 of them ending with us on the back foot and either conceding or being under pressure at the end of games. I feel that with a bit more sensible game management and ball retention in the opposition half Ange can reduce the stress on the team and ourselves as supporters can lower our blood pressure. Is it as simple as having more players comfortable to keep the ball under pressure or are we switching off in games and allowing the opposition to gain encouragement. Whatever it is I hope it is only a trait of a developing team and that ultimately Ange will have us dominating more games in the latter stages.

Tucker said:

Not sure what game you were watching. The second half was characterised by us losing the ball in the middle of the park, and Everton getting in behind us.

If you thought that performance was a demonstration of “control” I’d hate to see us when you think we didn’t.

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We all see games differently. A coach's perspective, a fan's perspective or just different in general.

We had much more control of the second half compared to the first, I thought.

Everton were restricted to long balls over the top which is something we are content with as we play a high line and VdV is quick to recover.

Some fans will look at that nervously but it is one of the consequences of us playing high and it is taken into consideration by Ange, for sure.

We certainly had more of a grip on the game. I felt much more comfortable and didn't see us throw up possession as much as we had been doing. Everton were not being allowed to press in wide areas and get crosses in.

We lost that though when Maddison, Werner and Hojbjerg went off.

Ange said as much.

Tucker said:

Not sure what game you were watching. The second half was characterised by us losing the ball in the middle of the park, and Everton getting in behind us.

If you thought that performance was a demonstration of “control” I’d hate to see us when you think we didn’t.

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You're wrong on that.

We had more control in the second half.

We lost control when Maddison went off and Gill/Skipp came on.

rossdapep said:

Ange said as much.

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What did he say exactly? Didn't really listen or watch anything to do with the match once it had finished.

Bluto Blutarsky said:

fuck me.

We are solidly in the top-5 - in a transition season that saw us lose our leading goal scorer on the eve of the season. We played 10+ matches with 4 FBs across the back line. Our CM combos have been in flux since the end of November, we've spent January without our current leading scorer, and two key CMs.

I think we are going to be ok, once we get settled...

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We were in the top 4 under Conte, with a weaker squad (yes I know we had Kane, but we didn't have Vicario, Porro (majority of time), VDV, Udogie, Maddison) so top 5, albeit in a transition season but without Europe to distract us feels like a step back - we are only going to play 41 games in total this season, you have to go back a long way to find a season we played so few games. So Ange has had plenty of time on the training ground with players when fit.

Romero has played 18 of our 23 prem games this season - so it is not 10+ matches with 4 FB's across the back line. And our only Prem clean sheet in the last 14 games came with Davies at CB. I think fans are entitled to be concerned about the defensive vulnerability of Ange's system.

Settled - I agree the injuries and suspensions and AFCON have disrupted progress under Ange - but I can see the excuses if results are bad for the next few weeks will be, Son, Sarr and Biss are knackered. Bentancur is playing his way back from two injuries.

FWIW, I am fully behind Ange and he most definitely needs time to coach the squad / team in his way - my concerns are that I think teams have already recognised how our system can be exploited and I wonder about his in game management.

There is a conversation to be had here. I despised Conte, and wanted him gone very early on, because he insisted on playing his formula (3 at the back and wingbacks) irrespective of whether we had the right players or not. In my naivety, I expected a manager on his salary might actually use his coaching ability to get the best out of the players he actually had, not the ones he wanted. I couldn’t stand that kind of dogma. And the football was boring.
With Ange, the football is anything but boring, and we have had some fantastic results, but there’s still that nagging feeling that our coach believes that his way is the only way, compromise is failure, and plan B is only ever “do plan A better”. He’ll have to change or it will destroy him.

I don’t buy this story that teams have worked us out now. The whole narrative when Ange joined was about how we would score loads but concede loads. It’s not like Ange’s way of playing has come as a surprise and now the coaches of the Premier League are finally figuring him out. Everyone and his dog knew the way he liked to play.

TOLBINY said:

so top 5, albeit in a transition season but without Europe to distract us feels like a step back

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Where did we finish last year?

What was the mood of the squad/fans at the end of last season?

Does this year really feel like a step back? Seriously?


I think we are lightyears ahead of where we were at the end of the season. We are not a finished product, but, the absolute turnaround is amazing.

ComfortablyNumb said:

There is a conversation to be had here. I despised Conte, and wanted him gone very early on, because he insisted on playing his formula (3 at the back and wingbacks) irrespective of whether we had the right players or not. In my naivety, I expected a manager on his salary might actually use his coaching ability to get the best out of the players he actually had, not the ones he wanted. I couldn’t stand that kind of dogma. And the football was boring.
With Ange, the football is anything but boring, and we have had some fantastic results, but there’s still that nagging feeling that our coach believes that his way is the only way, compromise is failure, and plan B is only ever “do plan A better”. He’ll have to change or it will destroy him.

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No that's the same approach the likes of Klopp and Guardiola have.
Our biggest issue has actually been when we've deviated from the plan. Often when we get in front we still have this habit of dropping off a bit and letting teams back into a game. Still plenty of work to do until his brand of football is 2nd nature. We don't need a plan B, we just need to follow plan A more.