Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

parj · Mar 20, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
Great point and shows what such a huge difference the right manager can make.

Lol I can't believe someone disagreed with having the right manager

JUSTINSIGNAL · Mar 20, 2023

Albertbarich said:
Yep the right man at the right time can work and overcome the obvious obstacles the board or certain players out before them.

It's happened before and will happen again.

Agree. It is very hard picking the right manager. A whole lot of factors need to align at the same time for it to be a success. The only teams that don't need to worry about that as much are those that can consistently throw money at the team. Even then it's not a sure thing, look at Man U in recent seasons, and even Everton.

mil1lion · Mar 20, 2023

FinnYid said:
Club is at fault for hiring a manager that doesn't suit a club a bit. Not culture, not existing squad, nothing. Besides club has brought in more than fair share of players to back up Conte. Thing is if clear Conte signings like Perisic are worst flops tells a lot.

More like historically a whining manager. However it is clear that our best chances of winning something is cups. Now this serial winner managing Juventus, Inter and Chelsea has as many cup trophies as Ben Davies as Swansea player. Now let that sink in.

I'd take a near team of Poch over League Cup and relegation dogfight like Ramos any time of the week. Our weakness is plying after trophies instead of trying to be best footballing team we can be. Pining after trophies leads constantly to obviously wrong managerial choices, we are looking at plain CVs instead of compability. That doesn't work in any line of business.

You're missing the point which is we need to change the culture of the club to fit the winning manager. Also stop with this Davies has won nonsense. He's won nothing at Spurs like Conte has won nothing at Spurs. He's won league titles which Davies hasn't, he's managed some of the best clubs in the world and Davies hasn't played for any. I don't get what your point is there at all other than trying to find another stick to beat Conte with. You hate him we get it but cone on now this is the same scenario af familiar failing that we've had for 20 years.

Bluto Blutarsky · Mar 20, 2023

Rout-Ledge said:
Tedious oversimplification of a complex scenario.

ask a general question, get a general answer.

Jamturk · Mar 20, 2023

davidmatzdorf said:
This - and nearly all the other posts in this discussion - is still looking at the problem as being a matter of individual players. That misses Conte's main point, which is easily discerned in among the ranting and fury.

He cannot induce the squad to play as a team. He cannot induce the whole club to function as a team. They continue to be a collection of high-quality, disparate individuals. I'm going to propose that, player for player, our squad is every bit as good as Arsenal's. They have more youth; we have more experience and a world-class striker. Th difference is that Arteta, having been furnished with the time to fail by the Arsenal board, worked his way through that time and built a team that plays as a team.

It's not true that Spurs have never had that. We achieved it under Pochettino, during three seasons between 2015 and 2018. The way our players would speak of each other was very redolent of how Bukayo Saka spoke of his teammates after this weekend's Arsenal win.

Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Rose were admirable players, but they formed a defensive unit that was greater than the sum of their talents. The same applied to whichever permutation of Eriksen, Dembélé, Wanyama, Dier etc., populated the midfield. That's how we finished 2nd and that's how we got to a CL final. By having a team.

Until people here stop reflexively returning the discussion to individual signings and the [de]merits of our individual players, we won't diagnose this correctly. We haven't had a proper team since Pochettino left. We've had talented players who gel occasionally.

I agree with you, however it's harder to foster this team if the one charged with moulding it is not committed to the team himself.

YB123 · Mar 20, 2023

SargeantMeatCurtains said:
Of the 8 players you’ve listed:

Lloris: World Cup winner and captain for club and country. Clearly past his best but his commitment or mentality can’t even begin to be questioned.

Sanchez: has made a grand total of 7 premier league starts this season and is very clearly out of favour.

Dier: played his part in getting us back into the top 4 last season but is generally rubbish and should’ve been sold years ago.

Davies: incredibly consistent and a good squad member. Has never moaned despite being on the fringes of the first team for years before finding a place at LCB under Conte in which he has performed very well.

Lucas: Zero premier league starts this season.

Sessegnon: poor signing. Weakest mentality within the squad. Should’ve been sold.

Son: world class player, potentially now declining.

Kane: if you doubt Kane’s mentality, you’re an idiot.

Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele aren’t even at the club so that’s an extraordinary reach.

So, who are you blaming?

My main blame goes to Levy for creating a mentality of top 4 is all that matters, second largest proportion goes to those players and a proportion of blame to the managers.

Oh i do apologise those players on loan only played a part in 2/3 managers getting sacked instead of 4. How poor of me.....

max cady · Mar 20, 2023

We lose the Lge cup 2-0 to Forest easily our best chance of a trophy, we barely qualify for next round of Champs Lge and we end up with a very kind and easy draw to help us progress and we lose that. We have an easy FA cup game against a 2nd string championship side and lose that quite easily. Losses to Wolves, Villa and Leicester that make us look like fools especially Villa & Leicester. We have lost twice to our biggest rivals. We draw after being 3-1 up at Southampton and then Conte raves like a lunatic in his presser. It is clear he will not sign a new contract and it is plain for everyone to see he does not want to be here so why oh why is he still here. We have played more games than most of our rivals for top 4 and further losses look likely with tough games ahead. And with that will come further rants from Conte.

Why is he still here???

Trix · Mar 20, 2023

SargeantMeatCurtains said:
Of the 8 players you’ve listed:

Lloris: World Cup winner and captain for club and country. Clearly past his best but his commitment or mentality can’t even begin to be questioned.

Sanchez: has made a grand total of 7 premier league starts this season and is very clearly out of favour.

Dier: played his part in getting us back into the top 4 last season but is generally rubbish and should’ve been sold years ago.

Davies: incredibly consistent and a good squad member. Has never moaned despite being on the fringes of the first team for years before finding a place at LCB under Conte in which he has performed very well.

Lucas: Zero premier league starts this season.

Sessegnon: poor signing. Weakest mentality within the squad. Should’ve been sold.

Son: world class player, potentially now declining.

Kane: if you doubt Kane’s mentality, you’re an idiot.

Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele aren’t even at the club so that’s an extraordinary reach.

So, who are you blaming?

SargeantMeatCurtains said:
I’d imagine, without wanting to speculate, that he’s spoken to Kane. He said as much a couple of weeks ago:

Kane: Top four not good enough for Spurs, but we lack ‘ruthless hunger’ to improve

The striker has delivered a damning verdict after a second cup exit in a week raises doubts over Antonio Conte’s immediate future

www.standard.co.uk

See I do wonder if things just haven't become a bit too comfortable for some of our players. They are very pampered at Hotspur way and I do question how much pressure is put on them to get results from the very top.

Some aren't going to like this but I'll say it anyway.....

I'm not as convinced Conte goes as others are if I'm honest. He still has people fighting his corner and saying he should have the kitchen sink thrown behind him as we really need to break this cycle. If the big hitting players are behind him I can't see Levy pulling the trigger if I'm honest.

Something 100% needs to change though, and they all really need to get on the same page either way with or without Conte.

parj · Mar 20, 2023

SargeantMeatCurtains said:
Nothing winds me up more currently than seeing people say “these players” have let down our last 4 managers. They’re an entirely different group of players FFS.

Wow, you really are going out of your way to be logical.

Totally agree by the way. Drives me bonkers that some genuinely believe Conte hasn't been backed.

Trix · Mar 20, 2023

max cady said:
We lose the Lge cup 2-0 to Forest easily our best chance of a trophy, we barely qualify for next round of Champs Lge and we end up with a very kind and easy draw to help us progress and we lose that. We have an easy FA cup game against a 2nd string championship side and lose that quite easily. Losses to Wolves, Villa and Leicester that make us look like fools especially Villa & Leicester. We have lost twice to our biggest rivals. We draw after being 3-1 up at Southampton and then Conte raves like a lunatic in his presser. It is clear he will not sign a new contract and it is plain for everyone to see he does not want to be here so why oh why is he still here. We have played more games than most of our rivals for top 4 and further losses look likely with tough games ahead. And with that will come further rants from Conte.

Why is he still here???

And the thing I find the most amusing about that is that the same posters saying they'd rotate for that game are also saying he threw the game with his team selection.

sparx100 · Mar 20, 2023

For the love of Spurs said:
If Mason takes over surely that indicates the manager we want is at another club as there are a good few managers out of work and ready to go.

A manager may want a full pre season to get transfers in/out and an opportunity to instill tactics into the team rather than picking up a demotivated team devoid of confidence.

YB123 · Mar 20, 2023

parj said:
Wow, you really are going out of your way to be logical.

Totally agree by the way. Drives me bonkers that some genuinely believe Conte hasn't been backed.

No manager will ever truly be fully backed. But a Big difference between being significantly backed and half backed. Conte was the latter.

Should he still do better? Of course. But dont say hes been backed properly by the club because you saw a decent sized figure of how much we spent

Trix · Mar 20, 2023

parj said:
Wow, you really are going out of your way to be logical.

Totally agree by the way. Drives me bonkers that some genuinely believe Conte hasn't been backed.

And it drives me bonkers when people look at how much we've spent and equate that to backing the manager.

Jamturk · Mar 20, 2023

I didn't see a lack of commitment on the pitch on Saturday, I saw a major tactical error from the manager.

YB123 · Mar 20, 2023

Jamturk said:
I didn't see a lack of commitment on the pitch on Saturday, I saw a major tactical error from the manager.

You have to be joking. Players were walking and taking the safe option at times.

Albertbarich · Mar 20, 2023

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
Agree. It is very hard picking the right manager. A whole lot of factors need to align at the same time for it to be a success. The only teams that don't need to worry about that as much are those that can consistently throw money at the team. Even then it's not a sure thing, look at Man U in recent seasons, and even Everton.

You could argue both Chelsea and ourselves threw money at Conte for his second season..

ralphs bald spot · Mar 20, 2023

mil1lion said:
You're missing the point which is we need to change the culture of the club to fit the winning manager. Also stop with this Davies has won nonsense. He's won nothing at Spurs like Conte has won nothing at Spurs. He's won league titles which Davies hasn't, he's managed some of the best clubs in the world and Davies hasn't played for any. I don't get what your point is there at all other than trying to find another stick to beat Conte with. You hate him we get it but cone on now this is the same scenario af familiar failing that we've had for 20 years.

but we haven't been failing for 20 yeas in fact in terms of supporting Spurs the last 20 years barring the last 3 haven't been that bad - we may not have got a trophy over the line but we have came dam close and finished consistently in the top half dozen in the League which we hadn't done since the early sixties

Now it's Spursonal · Mar 20, 2023

Trix said:
See I do wonder if things just haven't become a bit too comfortable for some of our players. They are very pampered at Hotspur way and I do question how much pressure is put on them to get results from the very top.

Some aren't going to like this but I'll say it anyway.....

I'm not as convinced Conte goes as others are if I'm honest. He still has people fighting his corner and saying he should have the kitchen sink thrown behind him as we really need to break this cycle. If the big hitting players are behind him I can't see Levy pulling the trigger if I'm honest.

Something 100% needs to change though, and they all really need to get on the same page either way with or without Conte.

Don’t know which one is more shocking here mate, that the board could envision keeping Conte, or that Conte could envision staying here?

Jamturk · Mar 20, 2023

YB123 said:
You have to be joking. Players were walking and taking the safe option at times.

On 70 minutes the game was won and then Conte decided to go 541 low block and invite the pressure that in the end told.

Goobers · Mar 20, 2023

Jamturk said:
On 70 minutes the game was won and then Conte decided to go 541 low block and invite the pressure that in the end told.

Only thing about this is that Saturday is not the only example of this type of play or performance and so I think looking at it in isolation doesn't make sense.

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