The VAR Thread

[ajspurs]

Great - if Liverpool fans did not already have enough on their plate, now there will be new petitions:

Even without the dreaded inevitability of Liverpool fans having something else to moan about, I really don't like going in the direction of games being replayed due to stupid VAR mistakes. Think it's a really dangerous path to go down.

 

[Yiddo100]

Great - if Liverpool fans did not already have enough on their plate, now there will be new petitions:

Is this actually going to be replayed or has it just been suggested to be replayed

 

[cwy21]

It's very very important to understand this isn't your standard VAR error. It was a Laws of the Game error that the VAR was one of the match officials who made it. Both teams encroached on a PK and the ref started with an IDFK to the defending team. The correct restart in that case would be to retake the PK.

Many of the cases of a match being replayed for an officiating error is due to an incorrect restart on a PK. It's one of the few factual decisions in the laws that refs have a habit of getting wrong on occasion.

If anything it opens up the issue with VAR and PK encroachment in general.

 

[cwy21]

This legitimately might be the most ridiculous var decision of the season. Not only that the VAR thought it was a clear and obvious red card but that the ref agreed.

Starts at 2:41

 

[Danners9]

This legitimately might be the most ridiculous var decision of the season. Not only that the VAR thought it was a clear and obvious red card but that the ref agreed.

Starts at 2:41

 

[allatsea]

Even without the dreaded inevitability of Liverpool fans having something else to moan about, I really don't like going in the direction of games being replayed due to stupid VAR mistakes. Think it's a really dangerous path to go down.

We don't have games replayed because of stupid Refs mistakes so why VAR ?

 

[spurs9]

Even without the dreaded inevitability of Liverpool fans having something else to moan about, I really don't like going in the direction of games being replayed due to stupid VAR mistakes. Think it's a really dangerous path to go down.

It's actually being replayed because of a "misapplication of one the laws of the game" not a VAR mistake.

The argument is, that VAR gave Anderlecht a free kick due to a Genk player being in the box (encroachment of the area), but as Anderlecht players were also doing the same, the letter of the law says it should be a penalty retake.

Very subjective IMO, as unless there is audio from VAR officials acknowledging the Anderlecht players in the box (and the fact the refereeing body declared it a VAR mistake would suggest not), then you can't know for sure which way the fault lies (not seeing or taking into account the Anderlecht players vs accounting for them in their ruling but applying the wrong outcome).

I do agree though, it sets a dangerous precedent, however it is apparently in the rules of the game in the event of misapplication of the law.

Luckily, the Liverpool incident wasn't a "misapplication of the laws of the game", it was a miscommunication.

From the below article:
"Belgium's refereeing body had initially ruled that the match would not be replayed as they regarded the incident as a VAR error rather than a misapplication of the laws of the game.

However, Genk appealed the decision to the Disciplinary Council for Professional Football who overturned the refereeing body's decision and ruled that the match should be replayed in full."

Match in Belgium to be replayed after VAR error

A disciplinary body has ruled that the Belgian Pro League match between Anderlecht and Genk will be replayed after a misapplication of the laws of the game.

www.espn.com

 

[luRRka]

It's very very important to understand this isn't your standard VAR error. It was a Laws of the Game error that the VAR was one of the match officials who made it. Both teams encroached on a PK and the ref started with an IDFK to the defending team. The correct restart in that case would be to retake the PK.

Many of the cases of a match being replayed for an officiating error is due to an incorrect restart on a PK. It's one of the few factual decisions in the laws that refs have a habit of getting wrong on occasion.

If anything it opens up the issue with VAR and PK encroachment in general.

I Read this as "I Don't Fucking Know" and in the context of match officials, it still made sense

 

[Danners9]

How did Jota get a penalty for Dúbravka's challenge, but Awoniyi was denied by VAR?

How did Liverpool's Diogo Jota get a penalty for Martin Dúbravka's challenge, but Nottingham Forest's Taiwo Awoniyi was denied?

www.espn.com

So, scrolling beyond the error in the Forest-Newcastle game and the couple of instances where VAR can't get involved, and 'the ultimate modern VAR penalty' - urgh, what a phrase.... there is another where the article states:

Would Tierney have advised a penalty if he hadn't given the earlier spot kick? Perhaps it created a situation in his mind where he felt he had to give both due to the raised arms, but by the Premier League's interpretation of handball this shouldn't be given.

and then

Before this game, there had been only two VAR penalties for handball in the Premier League. This was an incorrect VAR intervention and should have been left on the field. It was a great opportunity for a referee to stand by his own decision at the monitor, for what would have been only the second time this season.

It's Luton vs Sheff Utd btw. The 2 penalties. The first one, the ultimate one, saw the ball strike Burke's outstretched arm - fine, if you like. But the second one was when the Sheff Utd player was facing away from the ball, going up for a header and hunching his shoulders in the collision, then the ball hits his arm and that's the pen.

But the passages i've highlighted show what is so wrong about all this and also why the idea of a blue card/sin bin won't work with this current set of refs/directives. If they are judging a situation based on a decision earlier in the game - and there are many incidents where that appears to be the case - then the bar becomes lower and lower. I can believe the first incident is a pen, we've seen that before, but the second one is not and the article shows two examples of where it hasn't been given.

Intervention has become interference.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

 

[worcestersauce]

Vi ar alla Svenska

 

[dontcallme]

Stupid Swedes with their common sense and doing the right thing.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I think VAR has the right intentions - in theory - but the execution has been pretty bad.

If I were the VAR Czar - here is what I would do:

1. Change the Offside implementation to the AI-assisted version used by FIFA/UEFA (I think this is in place for next season)

2. Eliminate the use of slo-motion, or still shots on all other uses of VAR. Officiate the game at the pace it is played

3. Allow the VAR official to make calls for clear and obvious errors - no additional on-field reviews. Also, no review for fouls in the build-up to a goal (unless a review was already under-way for a serious foul) - if the on-field official missed a call - down-grade that official in their performance evaluation.

4. Allow VAR to intervene on balls out of play - i.e. whether it should be a corner or goal kick (less so for throw-ins).

5. Require all officials to attend weekly review sessions - where decisions are reviewed, evaluated, and officials are all educated at the same time. VAR should be used to bring consistency - which, I think, is really what most people want.

6. I would also consider allowing coaches to request 1 review per half - (and by extension those would be the only reviews allowed other than off-side, and goal-line technology)


I would also lobby to change the off-side law altogether - either change so that only feet can be offside - no measuring body parts, or, my preference, that the attacker must be completely in front of the defender to be called off-side.

VAR has effectively eliminated the concept that "Even is on" - most fans would prefer to see goals and attacking threats, and don't like to see goals chalked off for toe-nails being too long. Change the law so that it becomes obvious when the attacker has gained an unfair advantage.

 

[Marty]

5. Require all officials to attend weekly review sessions - where decisions are reviewed, evaluated, and officials are all educated at the same time. VAR should be used to bring consistency - which, I think, is really what most people want.

Several good points, although I'm 100% sure all serious referee organisations already do this.

But of course, that means I'm not sure about the thoroughly unserious organisation that is PGMOL.

 

[cwy21]

5. Require all officials to attend weekly review sessions - where decisions are reviewed, evaluated, and officials are all educated at the same time. VAR should be used to bring consistency - which, I think, is really what most people want.

They absolutely do this since it's a key part of them being full time officials. What do you want consistency on? Because one can argue VAR is pretty consistent at not getting involved in subjective decisions in the Premier League. It very much falls into how VAR was originally sold which is "clear and obvious". (Let's leave offside aside - that's another topic). You can still hear the pundits talking from 2018. VAR isn't here to re-referee the game. It should be used sparingly.

Every week we see PKs given and not given for a similar handball offense. The consistency is that VAR doesn't go against the on field decision. That's what VAR was brought in for. The problem is that more and more fans don't want what they said (past tense) they wanted. They want to correct call to be consistently made -- at least as much as a call can be "correct" when it's a subjective call. That means way more VAR.

Personally I think this is the correct path. Referee's are all getting together weekly and watching all of these clips. UEFA puts out their own training course twice a year to get refs on the same page. I think most supporters would be amazed at the consistency when 20 PL gets to watch a video clip and say what the correct call is. But they are held up by this idealized standard of clear and obvious that is just making everyone look incompetent.

If you want consistency then VAR needs to be used more and I'm not sure it's going to happen in the PL because too many are still stuck in this idealized world that VAR is only there to fix massive mistakes.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

You will never get consistency from human beings. Do you get consistency from footballers. Do they always hit the target from a penalty. Different people see things differently.
It doesn’t help when players just fall over with the slightest contact.
Watching the Brighton one last night, there was very little contact from Gvardiol. . He was running alongside and Brighton player chose to fall over . Didn’t fall over naturally but watch the knees bend , always a tell tale sign.