TheChosenOne
A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
- Dec 13, 2005
- 48,193
- 50,239
With a two minute delay for the kick -off while ref changed his headset
Ref Watch 2022-23
- Thread starter Tucker
- Start date
With a two minute delay for the kick -off while ref changed his headset
TheChosenOne
A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
- Dec 13, 2005
- 48,193
- 50,239
Ref watch thread and talking about watches/timekeeping and refs is hardly off topic !
I don't know what happened across the world in the last few years for this not to be a bright bright red card any more. And to be fair, it's not just in England where tackles like this aren't getting sent down by the VAR as a red.
taidgh
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2004
- 7,915
- 16,287
Definition of endangering an opponent, imo. Leg extended, studs up, contact is a little low, but on the leg, not the ankle.
richard_gleeson
Richg
- Jan 31, 2006
- 2,184
- 6,495
Got to say that disallowed goal at Chelsea today is quite frankly ridiculous. VAR is ok, but these people making decisions are a joke.
The twitter posts are going down so here are the West Ham and Newcastle ruled out goals
https://streamable.com/4x6ewa
https://streamable.com/ryt25m
https://streamable.com/4x6ewa
https://streamable.com/ryt25m
Tucker
Shitehawk
- Jul 15, 2013
- 31,546
- 147,646
- Thread starter
- #30
Pretty embarrassing really. The state of refereeing is so bad in this country. We have the richest league, and the largest league system with the most professional clubs. How have we let refereeing get so bad?
Needs a full overhaul and massive investment at all levels.
Timberwolf
Well-Known Member
- Jan 17, 2008
- 10,328
- 50,217
I reckon they need to stop using the same pool of refs to manage VAR and make them 2 completely separate entities.
There's clearly some kind of weird internal hierarchy among referees which creates its own web of politics and distractions. I would bet my life that the 'big bollocks' refs (e.g. Mike Dean) push their weight around on VAR leading to more decisions being looked-at or overturned as the more inexperienced refs cower to them. Or less experienced refs on VAR being too nervous to push for hard decisions or monitor viewing.
I don't think you necessarily even need experienced refs to work VAR as it's a different skillset. They just need some proper technical pros who understand the rules inside out and will be able to review decisions quickly and efficiently without any bias.
There's clearly some kind of weird internal hierarchy among referees which creates its own web of politics and distractions. I would bet my life that the 'big bollocks' refs (e.g. Mike Dean) push their weight around on VAR leading to more decisions being looked-at or overturned as the more inexperienced refs cower to them. Or less experienced refs on VAR being too nervous to push for hard decisions or monitor viewing.
I don't think you necessarily even need experienced refs to work VAR as it's a different skillset. They just need some proper technical pros who understand the rules inside out and will be able to review decisions quickly and efficiently without any bias.
taidgh
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2004
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I agree. I think the most skills for refereeing on the field and the ones for VAR are similar, but each role has specific attributes needed (fitness, game management skills for referees, detailed procedural knowledge, experience for VAR). Ultimately it comes down to training, which obviously hasn't been effective enough.
One of my greatest laments about the direction of refereeing is the relentless quest for homogeneity. The new batch of referees are like off a template and robotically apply the laws with little to no individuality, most with seemingly no idea of what players and coaches expect from the game.
Timberwolf
Well-Known Member
- Jan 17, 2008
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Yeah I feel like it's much easier to train those "VAR" skills to a lay-person or a lower level ref, though. You don't need any of the game-management or natural leadership skills which I think are by far the hardest to learn and master. They could easily test their VAR decision making skills by creating a training system based on previous VAR moments, along with standard 'rules knowledge' tests. I feel like it really wouldn't be that hard to set up an elite team of VAR specialists in a matter of months, whereas becoming a top on-pitch ref can take decades.
Conversely some refs who are great on the pitch might be complete technical duds who could barely turn on a PC as far as we know. They might not have a good sense of switching between angles or drawing lines on a monitor - stuff that any natural techie could do in seconds. Then you add in the whole 'hierarchy' factor and the pressure that surrounds that...
taidgh
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2004
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Just to your last point there, the VAR officials aren't actually running the computers or the software themselves, the techs do all that, following directions from the VAR officials.
Currently, VAR officials are the same referees we see in the middle in other games. For example, Paul Tierney did today's game in Manchester, and will most likely have VAR duties next week. I wonder if this is somewhat counterproductive, in that we're splitting them too thin and dividing their focus. Without question, VAR officials need to have game experience, but I do agree with you that lower-level refs could fill this role, with proper training. Right now it seems to me that the training itself is the issue, suggesting the recent change at the top of pgmol might be well-timed. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised at a move from the two-track system ( referee or assistant referee) to a three-track system (referee, assistant referee, and VAR official).
It's also used to give the refs a bit of a break. For example last weekend Oliver and Taylor did VAR since they had been doing midweek CL games in addition to multiple PL games in a row.
taidgh
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2004
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Yep. But just as easy to give them a proper rest, which would be more beneficial even.
mr ashley
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
- 3,166
- 8,607
Referees' Association fear abuse suffered by officials causing a loss of talent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62792367
Headline doesn’t quite tell the story.
PGMoL being blamed for the talent drain leaving the game.
sadly I can’t disagree.
There’s simply no good reason for these var errors.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62792367
Headline doesn’t quite tell the story.
PGMoL being blamed for the talent drain leaving the game.
sadly I can’t disagree.
There’s simply no good reason for these var errors.
taidgh
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2004
- 7,915
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I'd say that's definitely the case. Even when there's not bile filled personal attacks from parents/spectators, players, and coaches, the constant moaning and complaining is really wearing.
Tucker
Shitehawk
- Jul 15, 2013
- 31,546
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- Thread starter
- #39
Happens every time there’s a controversial weekend. All of a sudden the refs release statement about suffering abuse and the lack of talent coming through. It’s partly true, but it’s also partly an attempt to deflect the criticisms.
The refs need a huge overhaul from top to bottom.
mr ashley
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
- 3,166
- 8,607
I have sympathy for grassroots refs getting abuse.
I’ve stopped feeling it for PGMOL because they make no effort to improve and literally bring the criticism on themselves.
they could help each other out
They could communicate their decisions to the fans
They could even (wait for it) stop making such horrific and avoidable mistakes.
they really are a shambles
