Only as good as the people you train with?

[fridgemagnet]

I've been having a think about our squad and something which was said in commentary a few weeks ago about how Smalling has improved and will continue to improve by being at Man UTD, it was said that simply being surrounded by and training with the players they have he will get better and better, he faces strikers like Rooney and Hernandez, tricky players like Nani and Valencia and is flanked in training next to Rio or Vidic.

Now compare that to our squad, our defenders and keeper face off against JD and Crouch that for me is one reason we have seen a defence that hasn't progressed, our world class players are VDV and Modric i put Bale, Sandro and Lennon in the potentially WC bracket.

There is a lot of average in our squad, how can players ever improve if their training partners are mostly average and not very powerful :shrug: I'm rambling i know but hopefully you can see what i'm getting at.

By splashing out for a couple of clever intelligent strong players it will not only improve our XI but our other players will benefit from better training partners for example i think Dawson improved massively when Berba and Keane were here but has plateaued since they left.

If you line up our XI for a defence vs attack training session the only personal duel i see as improving each other is Benny vs Lennon but even then Lennon should win easy as Benny is one footed, maybe the one of the reasons Benny is one of the best LB's in the league is because he trains against Lennon and shows that Lennon needs to learn a few more moves.

How many of the players we have on our books were in the squads that finished 5th twice and how many have genuinely improved from then?

One more thing, IMO we are not fit enough, for the last two seasons we only seem to have full peak performance of 45 minutes in most of our players.

I've enjoyed the last couple of seasons immensely, i'd like to see quantity replaced with quality on the playing staff, on the coaching staff i'd like us to get better fitness and medical staff and from the manager i'd like him to either put down roots and stick for next 3-4 years or help get in a replacement this summer before the window opens because this uncertainty is not nice and it seems like Harry is playing verbal chess with big Dan, why would big Dan open his cheque book if the next manager in is going to want buy different players in 1 years time?

Not much to ask is it?

 

[OmarsComing]

Everyone is looking for excuses but ultimately our players are not as good as the new top 4. We cant compete with any of the top 4 financially etc etc blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHEN ARE OUR FANS GOING TO REALISE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE QUALIFIED FOR THE ECL ONE SEASON DOESNT MEAN THAT WE WILL EVERY SEASON?

 

[striebs]

Everyone is looking for excuses but ultimately our players are not as good as the new top 4. We cant compete with any of the top 4 financially etc etc blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHEN ARE OUR FANS GOING TO REALISE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE QUALIFIED FOR THE ECL ONE SEASON DOESNT MEAN THAT WE WILL EVERY SEASON?

And after a mere season in the the CL our fans are debating whether they really want the "inconvenience" of being in the Europa League .

What a luxury !

In years to come we may go back to lusting after qualification for the Europa League in the same way as we are lusting after qualification for the CL now !

 

[bubble07]

But VDV pretty much said the players don't really train...

 

[tobi]

Everyone is looking for excuses but ultimately our players are not as good as the new top 4. We cant compete with any of the top 4 financially etc etc blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHEN ARE OUR FANS GOING TO REALISE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE QUALIFIED FOR THE ECL ONE SEASON DOESNT MEAN THAT WE WILL EVERY SEASON?

That's debatable but what isn't is that the league was and still is wide open this season, we've had chances to make important strides and solidify a 1-4 finish but have seemingly failed to do so.

The manger, coaches and players should be held accountable.

 

[Knarf44]

I think the OP makes some good points and these are things that I know have been made in other threads at different times. Anyone who has played the game at whatever level would agree that when you train/play with/against better players it helps improves your own game.

I agree that when in training our defenders are up against our 3 strikers they probably have a fairly easy time of it because their movement is so predictable, Crouch and Pav are also fairly weak and can be easily dispossessed. Defoe is strong but lacks any kind of anticipation so is easily marked. Perhaps you have hit the nail on the head as to why our defending has been so poor recently. Of course, it doesn't help that only one of our midfielders, Sandro, can tackle. None of Modric, VDV, Lennon, Huddlestone, Bale are players who will put their foot in when it matters which is why we often get swamped by the opposition in midfield. Palacios likes a challenge but is a clumsy player and gives away far too many free kicks.

Like the OP I think the coaching staff needs refreshing as you can see that certain players have stagnated and that fitness levels have dropped markedly which is probably the main reason why our players have been getting so many niggling muscle injuries, strained hamstrings etc.

I have to disagree with OmarsComing that many of us think that we should be able to qualify for the CL every season. But, what we must have is the ambition to do it and the ambition to progress. Harry recognised this yesterday in his comments about selling our best players and it sending the signal that we are content to be a mid-table side. That's all very well but it's up to Harry and his backroom boys to always get the best from our squad and clearly that has not been happening for the last few weeks.

 

[Ribble]

Everyone is looking for excuses but ultimately our players are not as good as the new top 4. We cant compete with any of the top 4 financially etc etc blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzzz

WHEN ARE OUR FANS GOING TO REALISE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE QUALIFIED FOR THE ECL ONE SEASON DOESNT MEAN THAT WE WILL EVERY SEASON?

When will people stop making excuses for us not beating utter shit like West Ham?

 

[cabinfever]

When will people stop making excuses for us not beating utter shit like West Ham?

This.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=39547&highlight=Harry+Effect

I also saw that my old friend Harry Redknapp has enjoyed initial success at Tottenham Hotspur. I think he saw the writing was on the wall at Portsmouth, who had spent heavily in the hunt for success, and I think he was already looking for a way out. He’s now got millions of pounds worth of talent at his disposal – Mickey Mouse, if put in charge of that team, would enjoy success there, and I think Juande Ramos’ failings came down to a lack of communication and the player’s failing to respond foreign coaching methods and ideas.


If there’s one thing that Harry is good at, it’s working with players that are earning high salaries. People say that Harry can work on a budget and work his magic in the transfer market, and his great genius is having friends who are agents who get to the good players first and working with chairmen who are willing to pay the extortionate salaries that these players demand.
My abiding memory of Harry when we were working at Southampton is him sitting at his desk reading either The Sun or The Racing Post and it said everything to me when he appointed Kevin Bond as his assistant manager. Kevin’s a lovely man. On the training field, I’ve probably never seen anybody worse. Last year he got Bournemouth relegated and was forced to leave Newcastle yet there he is sat next to Harry at Tottenham Hotspur. People say that Harry did well at West Ham in bringing through the young players, but this was completely down to the academy director at the time, Tony Carr, who gets little credit.
Harry once said to me that he didn’t believe in coaching; he believed that you’re either born a good player or you’re not. It therefore makes more sense to me that he has employed Kevin Bond as his assistant. I mentioned to Harry that he should have a look at the Pro Zone statistics when we were at Southampton, which showed that in the first-half of games we were second in the table but in the second we were third-bottom, and I questioned the team’s fitness. I resigned on the Tuesday, and on the Saturday Southampton went into a 3-0 lead against Leeds United and then lost the game 4-3. I always remember Harry’s remarks to me weeks before that match, which were that he had never seen a computer win a football match.

Eh? Eh?

 

[fridgemagnet]

How Often Should Coaching Teams Be Rotated?

Long post alert sorry mg:

Bring this up again i got to thinking how often or even do the very best teams change their coaching staff around? I'm not talking managers just the coaches?

Is it better to have continuity in this area or change every X number of years? Surely if you change them then as a player you are shown a new way of doing something or a different coach will pick you up on something that your previous coach overlooked for example.

Our set plays have rarely been anything less than predictable (although we've shown a couple of clever ones this season) but look at Wolves they seem to have a huge bag of tricks at set plays, granted the teams that seem to work on them most have usually been those in the bottom half.

I'm looking at it this way an MMA fighter or a boxer will train with many different camps to improve certain areas of their game/stop them stagnating, i honestly believe by trying something similar keep a core of regular staff but bringing in a handful of different coaches throughout the season, for example maybe on a 3-4 month stints.

There are usually a lot of good coaches on gardening leave throughout the season we should look to use them IMO these people have been out of the game less time than the likes of Sir Les for example so their coaching is more current.

I could be talking out of my hat but i honestly think our coaching hasn't moved with the times, the fitness may have moved on (i'll say it again i still preferred our fitness levels under Ramos) but IMO our coaching hasn't.

 

[RichSpur58]

The title of this thread is really bad. There may be alot of sense in the points here but because the title is so crazy I cant be bothered to read it!!

Only as good as the players you train with? Tell that to Joe Calzaghe. his dad didnt know anything about boxing. Picked up a boxing manual and taught his son, and remained undefeated whilst winning WBA, WBC, WBO, IBF and Ring magazine belts at super middleweight and also cleaned out light heavyweight.

So no, you need talent 1st and formost. Coaching can help bring out that talent. But you cant make it out of nothing.

 

[FromTheLane]

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=39547&highlight=Harry+Effect

I also saw that my old friend Harry Redknapp has enjoyed initial success at Tottenham Hotspur. I think he saw the writing was on the wall at Portsmouth, who had spent heavily in the hunt for success, and I think he was already looking for a way out. He’s now got millions of pounds worth of talent at his disposal – Mickey Mouse, if put in charge of that team, would enjoy success there, and I think Juande Ramos’ failings came down to a lack of communication and the player’s failing to respond foreign coaching methods and ideas.


If there’s one thing that Harry is good at, it’s working with players that are earning high salaries. People say that Harry can work on a budget and work his magic in the transfer market, and his great genius is having friends who are agents who get to the good players first and working with chairmen who are willing to pay the extortionate salaries that these players demand.
My abiding memory of Harry when we were working at Southampton is him sitting at his desk reading either The Sun or The Racing Post and it said everything to me when he appointed Kevin Bond as his assistant manager. Kevin’s a lovely man. On the training field, I’ve probably never seen anybody worse. Last year he got Bournemouth relegated and was forced to leave Newcastle yet there he is sat next to Harry at Tottenham Hotspur. People say that Harry did well at West Ham in bringing through the young players, but this was completely down to the academy director at the time, Tony Carr, who gets little credit.
Harry once said to me that he didn’t believe in coaching; he believed that you’re either born a good player or you’re not. It therefore makes more sense to me that he has employed Kevin Bond as his assistant. I mentioned to Harry that he should have a look at the Pro Zone statistics when we were at Southampton, which showed that in the first-half of games we were second in the table but in the second we were third-bottom, and I questioned the team’s fitness. I resigned on the Tuesday, and on the Saturday Southampton went into a 3-0 lead against Leeds United and then lost the game 4-3. I always remember Harry’s remarks to me weeks before that match, which were that he had never seen a computer win a football match.

Eh? Eh?

Whose this from?!