Who's the Greatest? Pele? Messi? Carlton Palmer?

[C0YS]

Messi is the best footballer ever. The game is harder now, whether nostalgia-vision lets you think it or not - and he makes it look easier than anyone else ever has.

You can't really compare players through ages that easy. Though it is worth noting the best players play for decades and have adapted to cultural changes and style etc pretty seamlessly.

Football is more physical now, it's also quicker, players are taller, but so are people in general. But you are playing the game with a volleyball on a carpet. It's like when people look at old goalkeepers and think, goalkeeping was terrible back then, while failing to release that the ball was heavy leather bound. The point I'm making is put messi in the 1960s and he'd be out of his depth until he adjusts, and visa versa, bring Greaves or something to the modern day and he'd need to work on his fitness etc but football at it's core, in terms of technique etc hasn't actually changed that much.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Football is more physical now

I've seen a couple of people misuse the word 'physical' and it can create confusion. If you mean players are fitter, absolutely, but I think the much more widely accepted interpretation in footballing terms is that 'physical' means you get more contact, harder, much more robust challenges.

Is football more physical now? Absolutely not.

Are players fitter? For sure.

 

[Trix]

I don't think Best is credible for best ever. I mean he shouldn't even be in the discussion. Career peaked by the time he was 22. Was pretty much finished in top flight football by his mid-20s. His record just doesn't stand up.

I agree. MVB often gets left out of these debates because his career was cut short. Lasted longer than Best though.

Probably the best striker I've ever had the privilege to see.

 

[C0YS]

What 3 Copa America runners-up, a tournament they go into as favourites or second favourites every time ? The Copa America is basically a tournament comparable to La Liga, where he is playing for 1 of the 2 countries way beyond the rest of the field, and he hasn't won it in 5 attempts, and dragging a team through to 2014 World Cup final, he didn't even score in the knockout rounds, and Argentina scored only 2 goals in 4 matches in them, despite having Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero etc. Their defence dragged them through that, they won 1-0, 1-0 and on pens after a 0-0, before losing 1-0 in the final.

His International record is very poor in comparison to Maradona, Cristiano, Pele etc.

That's a complete disservice to south american football, which is way more competitive than you are making out. Brazil and Argentina in the last 10 years have not been way beyond Colombia, Uruguay and Chile, for example, not even close. During Messi's time any of 5 teams could legitimately win, but failure for Argentina to win any of them, is a failure not a success.

Messi hasn't won things internationally. Cristiano Ronaldo hasnt done enough with portugal internationally either, and winning a Euro, in which he wasn't really the key part of that victory, doesn't change that. Looking at players and saying 'oh' they didn't score enough goals, is not good logic at all, Argentina's defense was terrible, so they played deep and compact and allowed the attack to work. Messi shouldn't have won the player of the tournament that year, but was the little bit of magic that dragged them through.

Cristiano Ronaldo ability wise is not close to the level of Messi, however he is a player who learnt how to hone in his game and focus, and really he became better when he decided he was just a wide forward, and wasn't going to bother dribbling around and all that was a key part of his Man utd career. Clinical and effective is how I'd call Ronaldo, and good on him.

But, he doesn't compare to Messi, who think probably hasn't done enough internationally, to be up there with Pele and Maradona. Ask, pretty much, any pundit who follows football in Spain and the answer is very clearly Messi, with few exceptions.

To give you an example La liga player of the year award, chosen by the players in la liga, Messi has won 7 times and Ronaldo has one 2 times since both being in the league. The Christiano Ronaldo stuff tends to come from heavy marketing and creating this kind of international image which isn't always what is reflected in play. Again, ronaldo is like a well oiled machine, clinical, efficient, effective, at least from about 2013, and this is good. He's very good at it, but dragging his team around, he's not making plays, and to me that the difference.

Statisitically Ronaldo is very good, but Ronaldo is statistics, if Ronaldo stopped scoring goals, he'd be out, if Messi stopped scoring goals he'd still be a very effective player, and I think that's the difference.

 

[C0YS]

I've seen a couple of people misuse the word 'physical' and it can create confusion. If you mean players are fitter, absolutely, but I think the much more widely accepted interpretation in footballing terms is that 'physical' means you get more contact, harder, much more robust challenges.

Is football more physical now? Absolutely not.

Are players fitter? For sure.

Yeah I meant more physically demanding. Rather than more physical contact.

 

[Blake Griffin]

i can't comprehend any player being better than him.

 

[TheHodFather]

I agree. MVB often gets left out of these debates because his career was cut short. Lasted longer than Best though.

Probably the best striker I've ever had the privilege to see.

Presume MVB = Van Basten? If so agree he was an absolutely phenomenal player. Only non-Spurs player I ever had a poster of on my wall as a kid!

EDIT: And it's Maradonna for me, though I agree with the sentiment that it's pretty difficult to compare players from different eras.

 

[Col_M]

 

[SlotBadger]

Reminds me of the great Plato Quiñones from Hurricanes.

 

[tototoner]

My list but would have George Best 4th if he was an option

 

[michaelden]

For all those saying Messi, remember he is still on HGH. He was prescribed it as a young kid as he wasn't growing and as far as I can tell he has never been off it. The benefits of HGH are huge on strength, recovery etc... For this reason alone I don't feel he is the greatest of all time

 

[allatsea]

These sorts of lists are a nonsense IMO. Who on this forum was able to watch Pele at his peak ? Who watched him as a young man dominate the1958 World Cup ? How many were able to watch him as part of the greatest team ever (the Brazil 1970 World Cup winning team) ? It simply isn’t fair to compare players from the 1950’s and 1960’s to modern day standouts such as Messi and Ronaldo when it isn’t possible to have watched them regularly on TV or live.

I have been lucky enough to see all the players on the BBC list and for me Pele was the best ever but the first Ronaldo, the fat one, if he could have stayed fit would have been recognised as the best player ever.

 

[dontcallme]

Best I have seen in my lifetime is Brazilian Ronaldo. The mixture of power, pace and the quickest feet I have ever seen made him phenomenal. Such a shame his injuries stopped him having a longer career.

There is, in my view, 2 ways of being a great.

1) longevity- having a very good career from a young age to retirement. Pele was the epitome of this.

2) greatness in peak- Maradonna was so close to not having a great international career which was the height in his day. His performance at 86 was legendary and cemented himself as a great.

 

[ardiles]

Pele scored lots of goals but he had great players playing next to him.

Maradona could win matches on his own.

but the player that got me all excited whenever he played was Ronaldo (Brazilian).

 

[HNIM]

Best I have seen in my lifetime is Brazilian Reinaldo. The mixture of power, pace and the quickest feet I have ever seen made him phenomenal. Such a shame his injuries stopped him having a longer career.

There is, in my view, 2 ways of being a great.

1) longevity- having a very good career from a young age to retirement. Pele was the epitome of this.

2) greatness in peak- Maradonna was so close to not having a great international career which was the height in his day. His performance at 86 was legendary and demented himself as a great.

I think that was the cocaine...

 

[spud]

Diego Armando Maradona.

Who, incidentally, will celebrate his 60th birthday this friday (30th).

 

[michaelden]

I agree. MVB often gets left out of these debates because his career was cut short. Lasted longer than Best though.

Probably the best striker I've ever had the privilege to see.

I always felt Redondo gets left out for a similar reason, but also his position wasn't a goal scoring one.

https://talksport.com/football/2123...-midfield-superstar-and-nutmeg-hero-fernando/

 

[SlotBadger]

Best I have seen in my lifetime is Brazilian Reinaldo.

That‘s a left-field choice. He does have lovely hair, though:

 

[UncleBuck]

Can’t believe Beckenbauer doesn’t get a mention on here, he’s got auto predict on spellchecker, created a role that was named after him and Adidas still make trainers and boots in his name! ?
All joking aside the guy was pure class albeit in a not so glamorous role however he really did stand head and shoulders above anyone else for years.
Pele just wins it for me for his record and longevity, honourable mention to DM as well.

 

[spud]

Pele just wins it for me for his record and longevity, honourable mention to DM as well.

Dave Mackay?

I would say he's our greatest ever player but sadly not on an all-time world's best top 10 list