The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[TEESSIDE1]

Mourinho would love it to be his first game

If any of the players fail to turn up they’ll be banished to training on their own... the guy’s ruthless and it’s something we need.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I've never been sold on the "Poch is the messiah" message. Even when we were doing well. But there is also no doubt that for most of his time at Spurs he had us punching above our weight, irrespective of whether that was because other contenders were (and continue too) under perform around us.

We've been horrific the last 15 months but I think the problem has gone on longer than that. We weren't great in 17/18 either, as demonstrated by a pretty poor Man Utd taking 2nd place ahead of us, despite losing seven games.

How much of this is Poch's direct fault, I am not sure. Let's face it, he has been hampered by owners that are incredibly risk averse when it comes to backing a manager. The last non-risk averse transfer window was way back in January 2009 when relegation was staring us in the face.

I hate 4-2-3-1, especially with inverted wingers. It's great for slow tempo possession football, but I find it dull and things just end up a narrow mess. You need great players to play 4-2-3-1 like that effectively. An easier way is to play at least one winger in that formation. Poch started out with that formation and I found our football rather dull, but there was no doubting our league finishes. Another problem I had with our 4-2-3-1 is that we didn't really have the players for it. But then the squad was such an unbalanced mess we didn't really have the squad to play any particular formation fully. One of our key problems today, is that is still very much the case.

Ironically now, with Eriksen's fall from grace, we do have the players that could play an effective 4-2-3-1 and Poch won't play it. And when he does, he doesn't pick the balanced line up. Kane up top, with Son on the left, Moura on the right and Alli in the number 10 role may work. But Poch seems reluctant to play it. Instead he seems determined to get a narrow diamond or 5-3-2 formation to work.

The 5-3-2 I get. It's the most fluid and versatile formation out there. It was also the formation we played the most when we had our best run under Poch back in 16/17. One of the reasons it worked is because Alli and Eriksen cannot work effectively when in the same midfield. That year Alli played up front in a False Nine kind of position and it worked. The attacking areas were less congested because we didn't have Alli, Eriksen vying for the same space on the pitch alongside whatever other player Poch would play in his 4-2-3-1.

But Poch never settled on a formation or system and our transfer dealings reflected that chaos. Of course in a 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up top, there is no room for Moura or Son in the starting XI. And yet Moura was purchased. We don't seem to buy players that fit into a certain system we want to play. We buy players because they're available. At least that is how it seems to me.

Then with the players we do have, I don't think we utilise them correctly. We've wasted Winks. When he first burst onto the scene what I loved about Winks was that he was always looking to play it early and forward. And he was always looking to drive forward. Now he has been shoe horned into a defensive midfield role and it simply isn't working. He isn't Xavi and yet Poch clearly wants him to play that way.

And Sissoko. A strange purchase in the first instance, but has now become a cult hero. But this is the thing. Our terrible run of games has coincided with Sissoko becoming a first team regular. I'm not saying it is his fault but what I will say is that when you have Sissoko as a regular starting midfielder it means your midfield isn't top draw. Because he isn't a top drawer player. He isn't disciplined or creative and his positioning is poor. Having Sissoko in the side means his midfield counterpart (in a two) has to be extremely disciplined and do a lot more work. Which hangs Winks out to dry.

Another thing I've articulated for a few seasons now is that when Eriksen has an off game, so do Spurs. And Eriksen has been out of form for well over a season now. Bit like with Bale and AVB, did Eriksen paper over the cracks of Poch's poor tactical acumen?

I think the first time I was alarmed and pissed off with Poch was the whole "finishing above Arsenal isn't important" quote. And then typically we have a dreadful end of season slump and finish below them. Retrospectively this was the first of many stupid public statements he has made. But my spider sense went into complete overdrive when I read the book he released. I didn't understand why he released the book in the first place. I thought it was a dumb idea and still do. But most of all I read that book and what I took away from it was that he is actually an arrogant man with a weak mentality who rarely takes any kind of honest self responsibility when things go wrong.

The fact is Poch is not an innovator. He has leveraged his experience to mimic the styles of others. His biggest strength was getting players to believe in him, act professionally and give it their all. It's why I don't think he'll cut it at a top club. I don't think he can handle big egos. Younger players, keen to learn and keen to impress love him and buy into his ways. Older players will naturally be more cynical and resentful, especially when things are going for a rough patch. Poch now has a squad of experienced seasoned pros and he doesn't know how to get the best out of them.

Not really sure what I am driving at. All of the above are just ramblings of a disappointed fan who can see the inevitable writing on the wall. The team is much better than the recent performances, and results, have been and ultimately the manager pays the price for poor performances. I don't want Poch sacked. I think he deserves more time and another transfer window to turn this around. But I can't say I'll be sorry if he does leave in the next couple of weeks.

Really nice post agree with a lot.

 

[Mr Pink]

But a lot of the players are leaving soon anyway and it set a president for the future. What happens when these players don’t like the new guy?

We're signing Trump? ?

 

[baldinyid]

After watching Harry Kane yesterday I’m convinced he’s one of the players who is almightedly pissed off with things. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him try as less as he did yesterday. He looked utterly irked.

The Brighton game I watched on TV and you could see the lack of effort from Kane in closing down, making runs, pulling defenders around. That said, the whole team was shit in that game.

Yesterday I say the same again from Kane. I was getting proper pissed off from my seat in the North lower. Not sure others around me shared my view, but what do they know
Now either he is carrying a knock (unlikely) or he wants Poch gone. I'm thinking it's the later.
Warning!!! 2+2=5 alert:
Maybe things have gone too far with the comments Poch made in public in recent times thats tipped him over the edge. Or given the state that teams in he doesn't see how he can win things with Spurs so will have to leave. It could be he wants to stay and win things at the club but realizes that can't happen with Poch in the hot seat.

It's just all very sad. I don't want to be thinking like this as I hate the idea of players getting managers sacked; just one of the many reasons I despise Chelsea......

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Really bored of the mess now, very much want poch out now and the squad to be shaken up, MAINLY because if we don’t act soon Kane will go and the whole fucking house will fall down. We have a WORLD CLASS striker there who with the correct service will help us win something but if we don’t have a manager who is tactically good enough and a squad to match he will be off either this coming summer or the one after, he’s what 26 now, coming into the peak of his career, no chance does he stay at spurs when we are playing like this going out of cup competitions left right and centre and not being anywhere near the top 4 never mind the title!

erisken can go, Toby and jan can go but kane we HAVE to keep and build around and for that reason I think we need to bring in a mouriniho or allegri who Kane and others will for at least the next 2 seasons or so think yep I’ll give it a go here with this guy because he’s been there and won it.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The Brighton game I watched on TV and you could see the lack of effort from Kane in closing down, making runs, pulling defenders around. That said, the whole team was shit in that game.

Yesterday I say the same again from Kane. I was getting proper pissed off from my seat in the North lower. Not sure others around me shared my view, but what do they know
Now either he is carrying a knock (unlikely) or he wants Poch gone. I'm thinking it's the later.
Warning!!! 2+2=5 alert:
Maybe things have gone too far with the comments Poch made in public in recent times thats tipped him over the edge. Or given the state that teams in he doesn't see how he can win things with Spurs so will have to leave. It could be he wants to stay and win things at the club but realizes that can't happen with Poch in the hot seat.

It's just all very sad. I don't want to be thinking like this as I hate the idea of players getting managers sacked; just one of the many reasons I despise Chelsea......

Combination of that and him changing the way he plays after his multiple ankle injuries.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

If any of the players fail to turn up they’ll be banished to training on their own... the guy’s ruthless and it’s something we need.

Yep no messing around now, do what is needed to win.

 

[Mr Pink]

I've never been sold on the "Poch is the messiah" message. Even when we were doing well. But there is also no doubt that for most of his time at Spurs he had us punching above our weight, irrespective of whether that was because other contenders were (and continue too) under perform around us.

We've been horrific the last 15 months but I think the problem has gone on longer than that. We weren't great in 17/18 either, as demonstrated by a pretty poor Man Utd taking 2nd place ahead of us, despite losing seven games.

How much of this is Poch's direct fault, I am not sure. Let's face it, he has been hampered by owners that are incredibly risk averse when it comes to backing a manager. The last non-risk averse transfer window was way back in January 2009 when relegation was staring us in the face.

I hate 4-2-3-1, especially with inverted wingers. It's great for slow tempo possession football, but I find it dull and things just end up a narrow mess. You need great players to play 4-2-3-1 like that effectively. An easier way is to play at least one winger in that formation. Poch started out with that formation and I found our football rather dull, but there was no doubting our league finishes. Another problem I had with our 4-2-3-1 is that we didn't really have the players for it. But then the squad was such an unbalanced mess we didn't really have the squad to play any particular formation fully. One of our key problems today, is that is still very much the case.

Ironically now, with Eriksen's fall from grace, we do have the players that could play an effective 4-2-3-1 and Poch won't play it. And when he does, he doesn't pick the balanced line up. Kane up top, with Son on the left, Moura on the right and Alli in the number 10 role may work. But Poch seems reluctant to play it. Instead he seems determined to get a narrow diamond or 5-3-2 formation to work.

The 5-3-2 I get. It's the most fluid and versatile formation out there. It was also the formation we played the most when we had our best run under Poch back in 16/17. One of the reasons it worked is because Alli and Eriksen cannot work effectively when in the same midfield. That year Alli played up front in a False Nine kind of position and it worked. The attacking areas were less congested because we didn't have Alli, Eriksen vying for the same space on the pitch alongside whatever other player Poch would play in his 4-2-3-1.

But Poch never settled on a formation or system and our transfer dealings reflected that chaos. Of course in a 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up top, there is no room for Moura or Son in the starting XI. And yet Moura was purchased. We don't seem to buy players that fit into a certain system we want to play. We buy players because they're available. At least that is how it seems to me.

Then with the players we do have, I don't think we utilise them correctly. We've wasted Winks. When he first burst onto the scene what I loved about Winks was that he was always looking to play it early and forward. And he was always looking to drive forward. Now he has been shoe horned into a defensive midfield role and it simply isn't working. He isn't Xavi and yet Poch clearly wants him to play that way.

And Sissoko. A strange purchase in the first instance, but has now become a cult hero. But this is the thing. Our terrible run of games has coincided with Sissoko becoming a first team regular. I'm not saying it is his fault but what I will say is that when you have Sissoko as a regular starting midfielder it means your midfield isn't top draw. Because he isn't a top drawer player. He isn't disciplined or creative and his positioning is poor. Having Sissoko in the side means his midfield counterpart (in a two) has to be extremely disciplined and do a lot more work. Which hangs Winks out to dry.

Another thing I've articulated for a few seasons now is that when Eriksen has an off game, so do Spurs. And Eriksen has been out of form for well over a season now. Bit like with Bale and AVB, did Eriksen paper over the cracks of Poch's poor tactical acumen?

I think the first time I was alarmed and pissed off with Poch was the whole "finishing above Arsenal isn't important" quote. And then typically we have a dreadful end of season slump and finish below them. Retrospectively this was the first of many stupid public statements he has made. But my spider sense went into complete overdrive when I read the book he released. I didn't understand why he released the book in the first place. I thought it was a dumb idea and still do. But most of all I read that book and what I took away from it was that he is actually an arrogant man with a weak mentality who rarely takes any kind of honest self responsibility when things go wrong.

The fact is Poch is not an innovator. He has leveraged his experience to mimic the styles of others. His biggest strength was getting players to believe in him, act professionally and give it their all. It's why I don't think he'll cut it at a top club. I don't think he can handle big egos. Younger players, keen to learn and keen to impress love him and buy into his ways. Older players will naturally be more cynical and resentful, especially when things are going for a rough patch. Poch now has a squad of experienced seasoned pros and he doesn't know how to get the best out of them.

Not really sure what I am driving at. All of the above are just ramblings of a disappointed fan who can see the inevitable writing on the wall. The team is much better than the recent performances, and results, have been and ultimately the manager pays the price for poor performances. I don't want Poch sacked. I think he deserves more time and another transfer window to turn this around. But I can't say I'll be sorry if he does leave in the next couple of weeks.

You don't want him sacked and want him to turn things round, but think he's arrogant with a weak mentality at the same time?

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I just think he’s tried to reinvent the wheel when he doesn’t have too!

I think he thinks he’s cleverer than he is!

It reminds me of the tinkerman!

He’s seen klopp,pep etc all have their own philosophy and he wants to create one but by doing so he’s lost his principles.

He’s now left with two choices go back to basics!

Or strike lucky and find a system!

He’s got a good chance in the week to put a team out to smash red star get some confidence back then he needs to be brave vs Liverpool and go after them either way we will be in trouble if we sit back or not.

 

[Shadydan]

You don't want him sacked and want him to turn things round, but think he's arrogant with a weak mentality at the same time?

Yeah I read that post and thought the same thing, bit of a strange one.

 

[Mr Pink]

I know we had the crazy 6-2 game agaisnt Everton last December, but the last game in the league I really enjoyed was the 3-1 against Chelsea at the End of last November.

Started fast, Dele scoring a header. Kane working his nuts off, Son's rinsing of Luiz.

That was a performance, a proper one, from start to finish and we should of scored more.

It's nearly a year.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

You've lost me.

Don't worry , I'm lost as well , a bit like a lot of Spurs future results.

 

[WiganSpur]

If it has got to the point where Harry has had enough then I suspect that’s the one thing that would prompt levy into doing something.

The cynic in me says he still might be thinking it as a good excuse to cash in whilst keeping fans on side by claiming he was unhappy and backing Poch etc etc.

 

[coys200]

I know it’s all ifs and buts. But quite realistic ones:
Held on to Arsenal 2-0
Got Leicester VAR 2-0
Beaten Watford Newcastle Brighton

we’d be joint top ?

 

[Ronwol196061]

I've never been sold on the "Poch is the messiah" message. Even when we were doing well. But there is also no doubt that for most of his time at Spurs he had us punching above our weight, irrespective of whether that was because other contenders were (and continue too) under perform around us.

We've been horrific the last 15 months but I think the problem has gone on longer than that. We weren't great in 17/18 either, as demonstrated by a pretty poor Man Utd taking 2nd place ahead of us, despite losing seven games.

How much of this is Poch's direct fault, I am not sure. Let's face it, he has been hampered by owners that are incredibly risk averse when it comes to backing a manager. The last non-risk averse transfer window was way back in January 2009 when relegation was staring us in the face.

I hate 4-2-3-1, especially with inverted wingers. It's great for slow tempo possession football, but I find it dull and things just end up a narrow mess. You need great players to play 4-2-3-1 like that effectively. An easier way is to play at least one winger in that formation. Poch started out with that formation and I found our football rather dull, but there was no doubting our league finishes. Another problem I had with our 4-2-3-1 is that we didn't really have the players for it. But then the squad was such an unbalanced mess we didn't really have the squad to play any particular formation fully. One of our key problems today, is that is still very much the case.

Ironically now, with Eriksen's fall from grace, we do have the players that could play an effective 4-2-3-1 and Poch won't play it. And when he does, he doesn't pick the balanced line up. Kane up top, with Son on the left, Moura on the right and Alli in the number 10 role may work. But Poch seems reluctant to play it. Instead he seems determined to get a narrow diamond or 5-3-2 formation to work.

The 5-3-2 I get. It's the most fluid and versatile formation out there. It was also the formation we played the most when we had our best run under Poch back in 16/17. One of the reasons it worked is because Alli and Eriksen cannot work effectively when in the same midfield. That year Alli played up front in a False Nine kind of position and it worked. The attacking areas were less congested because we didn't have Alli, Eriksen vying for the same space on the pitch alongside whatever other player Poch would play in his 4-2-3-1.

But Poch never settled on a formation or system and our transfer dealings reflected that chaos. Of course in a 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up top, there is no room for Moura or Son in the starting XI. And yet Moura was purchased. We don't seem to buy players that fit into a certain system we want to play. We buy players because they're available. At least that is how it seems to me.

Then with the players we do have, I don't think we utilise them correctly. We've wasted Winks. When he first burst onto the scene what I loved about Winks was that he was always looking to play it early and forward. And he was always looking to drive forward. Now he has been shoe horned into a defensive midfield role and it simply isn't working. He isn't Xavi and yet Poch clearly wants him to play that way.

And Sissoko. A strange purchase in the first instance, but has now become a cult hero. But this is the thing. Our terrible run of games has coincided with Sissoko becoming a first team regular. I'm not saying it is his fault but what I will say is that when you have Sissoko as a regular starting midfielder it means your midfield isn't top draw. Because he isn't a top drawer player. He isn't disciplined or creative and his positioning is poor. Having Sissoko in the side means his midfield counterpart (in a two) has to be extremely disciplined and do a lot more work. Which hangs Winks out to dry.

Another thing I've articulated for a few seasons now is that when Eriksen has an off game, so do Spurs. And Eriksen has been out of form for well over a season now. Bit like with Bale and AVB, did Eriksen paper over the cracks of Poch's poor tactical acumen?

I think the first time I was alarmed and pissed off with Poch was the whole "finishing above Arsenal isn't important" quote. And then typically we have a dreadful end of season slump and finish below them. Retrospectively this was the first of many stupid public statements he has made. But my spider sense went into complete overdrive when I read the book he released. I didn't understand why he released the book in the first place. I thought it was a dumb idea and still do. But most of all I read that book and what I took away from it was that he is actually an arrogant man with a weak mentality who rarely takes any kind of honest self responsibility when things go wrong.

The fact is Poch is not an innovator. He has leveraged his experience to mimic the styles of others. His biggest strength was getting players to believe in him, act professionally and give it their all. It's why I don't think he'll cut it at a top club. I don't think he can handle big egos. Younger players, keen to learn and keen to impress love him and buy into his ways. Older players will naturally be more cynical and resentful, especially when things are going for a rough patch. Poch now has a squad of experienced seasoned pros and he doesn't know how to get the best out of them.

Not really sure what I am driving at. All of the above are just ramblings of a disappointed fan who can see the inevitable writing on the wall. The team is much better than the recent performances, and results, have been and ultimately the manager pays the price for poor performances. I don't want Poch sacked. I think he deserves more time and another transfer window to turn this around. But I can't say I'll be sorry if he does leave in the next couple of weeks.

This is by far the best account I've read here or anywhere else.Bravo. Right on I think.
Really you need to speak to DL and explain this. I agree with most if not all of it (I dont like to blame Sissoko for anything as he has worked harder than anyone else and in fact often when we were scrambling last year to move the ball down the field he actually did it a lot,of course to finally not get anything done but still nobody else was pushing forward)
I agree with the rest.Well put.

 

[SpursJord]

In this scenario given Levy is first and foremost a business man, one that likes to maximise income at every opportunity. So looking at that alone a big reason for him to give Pochettino the most amount of time to sort this as possible before it becoming wildly out of control would affect potential sponsors surely? I mean when he is selling the club to these sponsors as to what we can offer and where we will be going forward, becomes much harder when the footballing side doesn't look so stable with a new manager! If Pochettino were to sort this dire mess out and gets us going we know where we have been with him.. So know where we could potentially go again going forward and also makes a stable footballing side aswell. Because let's face it nobody will drop millions on the club if they think we are going backwards or becoming unstable? Surely part of Levys thoughts?

 

[synththfc]

IMO we've seen enough to show that this isn't going to be fixed by Poch. It's not like this has been happening for 2 months, it's been like this since the turn of the year. The only things that papered over the cracks was one of the luckiest matches I've ever seen at the Etihad (coupled with Son's clinical finishing early on), Ajax's inability to put us to the sword, and some magic from Lucas (ironic that he refuses to play the man who most likely kept him in a job for this long). There's a large enough sample size, IMO, to show that this is only gonna get worse. Levy needs to act ASAP.

 

[bubble07]

Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke

Liverpool could attract better players because they give more wages

 

[sausage]

Liverpool could attract better players because they pay obscene agents fees

FYP

 

[dagraham]

I know it’s all ifs and buts. But quite realistic ones:
Held on to Arsenal 2-0
Got Leicester VAR 2-0
Beaten Watford Newcastle Brighton

we’d be joint top ?

I know you’re not being serious, but they aren’t realistic really. The only one of those you can realistically point to is the Leicester game. We could still have easily lost to Arsenal in the end, and if the ref had done his job properly would have lost on Sat.

Could have been a point worse off if we hadn’t lucked out away to City as well!