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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,171
2,742
Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke
 

Spurs_S.A.

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
164
271
I think he needs to learn more how to develop the midfield into a more flexible unit.
We need to get the best out of Winks,use Ndombele's talent with the through ball by protecting the defensive side by working Dier with Winks
I don't think the midfield is the only issue. Watching the game over the weekend around the 53rd minute Aurier puts in a excellent cross, Harry is on this heels, not even attempting to get onto the end of the ball. Harry looks like he had enough as well, the hunger for the fight seems to have gone. This was not the only time I'm notice this straggling around on the pitch. He was so influential for England this past week, I was shocked by his performance.
 

Spursy2j

Member
Jul 22, 2005
63
68
I don't think the midfield is the only issue. Watching the game over the weekend around the 53rd minute Aurier puts in a excellent cross, Harry is on this heels, not even attempting to get onto the end of the ball. Harry looks like he had enough as well, the hunger for the fight seems to have gone. This was not the only time I'm notice this straggling around on the pitch. He was so influential for England this past week, I was shocked by his performance.
Im seeing it too, not the leader hes made up to be, used to be a world class striker who banged in many goals, now he doesn't even shoot or even get in positions to shoot.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I don't think the midfield is the only issue. Watching the game over the weekend around the 53rd minute Aurier puts in a excellent cross, Harry is on this heels, not even attempting to get onto the end of the ball. Harry looks like he had enough as well, the hunger for the fight seems to have gone. This was not the only time I'm notice this straggling around on the pitch. He was so influential for England this past week, I was shocked by his performance.
I was too but I also realise his lack of service for the longest time.
He watches Mane Salah Aguero etc getting open looksxabd we cant muster much that way.I dont blame Kane.
He wasn't very good in this game he looked like he had enough.
I watched him score that amazing goal against Leicester I think....on the ground never say die and he has to put up with crap service.
 

Spursy2j

Member
Jul 22, 2005
63
68
I was too but I also realise his lack of service for the longest time.
He watches Mane Salah Aguero etc getting open looksxabd we cant muster much that way.I dont blame Kane.
He wasn't very good in this game he looked like he had enough.
I watched him score that amazing goal against Leicester I think....on the ground never say die and he has to put up with crap service.
He looks so slow and off the pace, has done really since coming back from injury.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
If it has got to the point where Harry has had enough then I suspect that’s the one thing that would prompt levy into doing something.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
You got players like Siss, that give their all for the team every week, probably not even a Spurs 'fan'. Kane claims to love us, boyhood club etc. team captain, appears not to care. No excuses really, he as well as all the others should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Kane is losing faith. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t care, but at this level it only takes a 5% drop in intensity and focus to make a huge difference. These guys are human and I wouldn’t blame him if he’s thinking about his future as he sees things go tits up before his eyes and talk about more “projects” and “rebuilds”.

And I’m still convinced that he’s changed his game due to self preservation due to injuries and burn out. Something that we could have done more about if we’d been bolder and better in the transfer market.
 

Spursy2j

Member
Jul 22, 2005
63
68
Wouldn’t surprise me if Kane is losing faith. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t care, but at this level it only takes a 5% drop in intensity and focus to make a huge difference. These guys are human and I wouldn’t blame him if he’s thinking about his future as he sees things go tits up before his eyes and talk about more “projects” and “rebuilds”.

And I’m still convinced that he’s changed his game due to self preservation due to injuries and burn out. Something that we could have done more about if we’d been bolder and better in the transfer market.
could stopped playing him 90mins everyweek when comfortable as well
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke

This again...Nonsense stat!

Poch has been at Spurs one more year than Klopp, of course his spend is going to be higher

Lo Celso, Clarke Sessegnon and Ndombele account for a quarter of that total spend haven't even played 15 matches together collectively.

Honestly where does this kind of crap come from?
 

wirE

I'm a well-known member
Sep 27, 2005
4,676
5,582
Garth Crooks hating on Poch whilst Martin Keown(!) says we’re lucky to have him. That’s something?
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
This again...Nonsense stat!

Poch has been at Spurs one more year than Klopp, of course his spend is going to be higher

Lo Celso, Clarke Sessegnon and Ndombele account for a quarter of that total spend haven't even played 15 matches together collectively.

Honestly where does this kind of crap come from?

Lo Celso won't be included - we haven't paid for him yet.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
4,583
6,947
I've never been sold on the "Poch is the messiah" message. Even when we were doing well. But there is also no doubt that for most of his time at Spurs he had us punching above our weight, irrespective of whether that was because other contenders were (and continue too) under perform around us.

We've been horrific the last 15 months but I think the problem has gone on longer than that. We weren't great in 17/18 either, as demonstrated by a pretty poor Man Utd taking 2nd place ahead of us, despite losing seven games.

How much of this is Poch's direct fault, I am not sure. Let's face it, he has been hampered by owners that are incredibly risk averse when it comes to backing a manager. The last non-risk averse transfer window was way back in January 2009 when relegation was staring us in the face.

I hate 4-2-3-1, especially with inverted wingers. It's great for slow tempo possession football, but I find it dull and things just end up a narrow mess. You need great players to play 4-2-3-1 like that effectively. An easier way is to play at least one winger in that formation. Poch started out with that formation and I found our football rather dull, but there was no doubting our league finishes. Another problem I had with our 4-2-3-1 is that we didn't really have the players for it. But then the squad was such an unbalanced mess we didn't really have the squad to play any particular formation fully. One of our key problems today, is that is still very much the case.

Ironically now, with Eriksen's fall from grace, we do have the players that could play an effective 4-2-3-1 and Poch won't play it. And when he does, he doesn't pick the balanced line up. Kane up top, with Son on the left, Moura on the right and Alli in the number 10 role may work. But Poch seems reluctant to play it. Instead he seems determined to get a narrow diamond or 5-3-2 formation to work.

The 5-3-2 I get. It's the most fluid and versatile formation out there. It was also the formation we played the most when we had our best run under Poch back in 16/17. One of the reasons it worked is because Alli and Eriksen cannot work effectively when in the same midfield. That year Alli played up front in a False Nine kind of position and it worked. The attacking areas were less congested because we didn't have Alli, Eriksen vying for the same space on the pitch alongside whatever other player Poch would play in his 4-2-3-1.

But Poch never settled on a formation or system and our transfer dealings reflected that chaos. Of course in a 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up top, there is no room for Moura or Son in the starting XI. And yet Moura was purchased. We don't seem to buy players that fit into a certain system we want to play. We buy players because they're available. At least that is how it seems to me.

Then with the players we do have, I don't think we utilise them correctly. We've wasted Winks. When he first burst onto the scene what I loved about Winks was that he was always looking to play it early and forward. And he was always looking to drive forward. Now he has been shoe horned into a defensive midfield role and it simply isn't working. He isn't Xavi and yet Poch clearly wants him to play that way.

And Sissoko. A strange purchase in the first instance, but has now become a cult hero. But this is the thing. Our terrible run of games has coincided with Sissoko becoming a first team regular. I'm not saying it is his fault but what I will say is that when you have Sissoko as a regular starting midfielder it means your midfield isn't top draw. Because he isn't a top drawer player. He isn't disciplined or creative and his positioning is poor. Having Sissoko in the side means his midfield counterpart (in a two) has to be extremely disciplined and do a lot more work. Which hangs Winks out to dry.

Another thing I've articulated for a few seasons now is that when Eriksen has an off game, so do Spurs. And Eriksen has been out of form for well over a season now. Bit like with Bale and AVB, did Eriksen paper over the cracks of Poch's poor tactical acumen?

I think the first time I was alarmed and pissed off with Poch was the whole "finishing above Arsenal isn't important" quote. And then typically we have a dreadful end of season slump and finish below them. Retrospectively this was the first of many stupid public statements he has made. But my spider sense went into complete overdrive when I read the book he released. I didn't understand why he released the book in the first place. I thought it was a dumb idea and still do. But most of all I read that book and what I took away from it was that he is actually an arrogant man with a weak mentality who rarely takes any kind of honest self responsibility when things go wrong.

The fact is Poch is not an innovator. He has leveraged his experience to mimic the styles of others. His biggest strength was getting players to believe in him, act professionally and give it their all. It's why I don't think he'll cut it at a top club. I don't think he can handle big egos. Younger players, keen to learn and keen to impress love him and buy into his ways. Older players will naturally be more cynical and resentful, especially when things are going for a rough patch. Poch now has a squad of experienced seasoned pros and he doesn't know how to get the best out of them.

Not really sure what I am driving at. All of the above are just ramblings of a disappointed fan who can see the inevitable writing on the wall. The team is much better than the recent performances, and results, have been and ultimately the manager pays the price for poor performances. I don't want Poch sacked. I think he deserves more time and another transfer window to turn this around. But I can't say I'll be sorry if he does leave in the next couple of weeks.
 
Last edited:

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
I would think so, yes.

You're not telling me that the players are giving their all at the moment? No chance.

A new manager gets motivation up ten fold for a start.

I want to see a bit of tempo and unrgecy about us.

We've been playing slow laboured football for months now, it's actually boring.

But a lot of the players are leaving soon anyway and it set a president for the future. What happens when these players don’t like the new guy?
 

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
Calm down dude, you know absolutely nothing about what's going on behind the scenes. I'm pretty sure Kane will always want what's best for the club.

He’s not playing like he does atm.
Played excellent for England is the week and was pretty dreadful on Saturday and in the weeks before
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Since arriving at Tottenham Pochetino has spent £394.62M on players (list below – Source: TransferMarket)
Since arriving at Liverpool Klopp has spent £400.37M on players – not a lot different in spend – which suggests two things. Klopp / Liverpool recruit better than Poch / Tottenham and Klopp is able to get more out of his players than Poch.

Ben Davies
Federico Fazio
Dele Alli
Benjamin Stambouli
Michel Vorm
Eric Dier
DeAndre Yedlin
Heung-min Son
Toby Alderweireld
Clinton N'Jie
Kevin Wimmer
Kieran Trippier
Moussa Sissoko
Vincent Janssen
Victor Wanyama
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou
Pau López
Lucas Moura
Serge Aurier
Fernando Llorente
Juan Foyth
Paulo Gazzaniga
Tanguy Ndombélé
Ryan Sessegnon
Giovani Lo Celso
Jack Clarke
1,000,000% spot on and it’s a combination of both, Liverpool have recruited better than us and klopp is a better manager than poch.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Wouldn’t surprise me if Kane is losing faith. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t care, but at this level it only takes a 5% drop in intensity and focus to make a huge difference. These guys are human and I wouldn’t blame him if he’s thinking about his future as he sees things go tits up before his eyes and talk about more “projects” and “rebuilds”.

And I’m still convinced that he’s changed his game due to self preservation due to injuries and burn out. Something that we could have done more about if we’d been bolder and better in the transfer market.
Spot on.
 

CarrickSpurgus

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
622
1,575
I've never been sold on the "Poch is the messiah" message. Even when we were doing well. But there is also no doubt that for most of his time at Spurs he had us punching above our weight, irrespective of whether that was because other contenders were (and continue too) under perform around us.

We've been horrific the last 15 months but I think the problem has gone on longer than that. We weren't great in 17/18 either, as demonstrated by a pretty poor Man Utd taking 2nd place ahead of us, despite losing seven games.

How much of this is Poch's direct fault, I am not sure. Let's face it, he has been hampered by owners that are incredibly risk averse when it comes to backing a manager. The last non-risk averse transfer window was way back in January 2009 when relegation was staring us in the face.

I hate 4-2-3-1, especially with inverted wingers. It's great for slow tempo possession football, but I find it dull and things just end up a narrow mess. You need great players to play 4-2-3-1 like that effectively. An easier way is to play at least one winger in that formation. Poch started out with that formation and I found our football rather dull, but there was no doubting our league finishes. Another problem I had with our 4-2-3-1 is that we didn't really have the players for it. But then the squad was such an unbalanced mess we didn't really have the squad to play any particular formation fully. One of our key problems today, is that is still very much the case.

Ironically now, with Eriksen's fall from grace, we do have the players that could play an effective 4-2-3-1 and Poch won't play it. And when he does, he doesn't pick the balanced line up. Kane up top, with Son on the left, Moura on the right and Alli in the number 10 role may work. But Poch seems reluctant to play it. Instead he seems determined to get a narrow diamond or 5-3-2 formation to work.

The 5-3-2 I get. It's the most fluid and versatile formation out there. It was also the formation we played the most when we had our best run under Poch back in 16/17. One of the reasons it worked is because Alli and Eriksen cannot work effectively when in the same midfield. That year Alli played up front in a False Nine kind of position and it worked. The attacking areas were less congested because we didn't have Alli, Eriksen vying for the same space on the pitch alongside whatever other player Poch would play in his 4-2-3-1.

But Poch never settled on a formation or system and our transfer dealings reflected that chaos. Of course in a 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up top, there is no room for Moura or Son in the starting XI. And yet Moura was purchased. We don't seem to buy players that fit into a certain system we want to play. We buy players because they're available. At least that is how it seems to me.

Then with the players we do have, I don't think we utilise them correctly. We've wasted Winks. When he first burst onto the scene what I loved about Winks was that he was always looking to play it early and forward. And he was always looking to drive forward. Now he has been shoe horned into a defensive midfield role and it simply isn't working. He isn't Xavi and yet Poch clearly wants him to play that way.

And Sissoko. A strange purchase in the first instance, but has now become a cult hero. But this is the thing. Our terrible run of games has coincided with Sissoko becoming a first team regular. I'm not saying it is his fault but what I will say is that when you have Sissoko as a regular starting midfielder it means your midfield isn't top draw. Because he isn't a top drawer player. He isn't disciplined or creative and his positioning is poor. Having Sissoko in the side means his midfield counterpart (in a two) has to be extremely disciplined and do a lot more work. Which hangs Winks out to dry.

Another thing I've articulated for a few seasons now is that when Eriksen has an off game, so do Spurs. And Eriksen has been out of form for well over a season now. Bit like with Bale and AVB, did Eriksen paper over the cracks of Poch's poor tactical acumen?

I think the first time I was alarmed and pissed off with Poch was the whole "finishing above Arsenal isn't important" quote. And then typically we have a dreadful end of season slump and finish below them. Retrospectively this was the first of many stupid public statements he has made. But my spider sense went into complete overdrive when I read the book he released. I didn't understand why he released the book in the first place. I thought it was a dumb idea and still do. But most of all I read that book and what I took away from it was that he is actually an arrogant man with a weak mentality who rarely takes any kind of honest self responsibility when things go wrong.

The fact is Poch is not an innovator. He has leveraged his experience to mimic the styles of others. His biggest strength was getting players to believe in him, act professionally and give it their all. It's why I don't think he'll cut it at a top club. I don't think he can handle big egos. Younger players, keen to learn and keen to impress love him and buy into his ways. Older players will naturally be more cynical and resentful, especially when things are going for a rough patch. Poch now has a squad of experienced seasoned pros and he doesn't know how to get the best out of them.

Not really sure what I am driving at. All of the above are just ramblings of a disappointed fan who can see the inevitable writing on the wall. The team is much better than the recent performances, and results, have been and ultimately the manager pays the price for poor performances. I don't want Poch sacked. I think he deserves more time and another transfer window to turn this around. But I can't say I'll be sorry if he does leave in the next couple of weeks.
Top post mate.
 

ostrov

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2006
1,447
1,053
You got players like Siss, that give their all for the team every week, probably not even a Spurs 'fan'. Kane claims to love us, boyhood club etc. team captain, appears not to care. No excuses really, he as well as all the others should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
Overreaction
 
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