Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

Sweech

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Sounds promising but I do have to question whether moving country at such a young age is good for player development. Bentaleb probably the most successful of our foreign academy players?
We actually seem to take in less imports than most of the other PL clubs.
 

IGSpur

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another Estonian CB on trial with us

https://sport.err.ee/1138706/nomme-unitedi-keskkaitsja-viibib-tottenham-hotspuris-testimisel


Nõmme United football club announced on social media that the team's 17-year-old central defender Erko Jonne Tõugjas will be on testing with the U-18 team of the English Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur this week
.
17-year-old Tõugjas has represented the Nõmme United representative team in the premier league in 21 matches this year, scoring two goals. In the ranks of the Estonian U-17 team, the central defender has participated in 11 games.

At the beginning of the week, Maksim Paskotch, a pioneer of the Breed, shook hands with the Tottenham Academy. The former Flora defender also underwent a weekly test in August and signed a three-year contract with the London team.
Not to be a negative Ned but I just can't see why they'd think it'd be clever to send to of their best CBs here. Maybe to help each other settle? Unless we were the only clubs after them. But I'd have definitely gone United or Chelsea. Your chance of making it is slim, but at least they have excellent links with clubs for loans here and aborad, which means they have a better chance of playing first team football somewhere.
 

Locotoro

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Not to be a negative Ned but I just can't see why they'd think it'd be clever to send to of their best CBs here. Maybe to help each other settle? Unless we were the only clubs after them. But I'd have definitely gone United or Chelsea. Your chance of making it is slim, but at least they have excellent links with clubs for loans here and aborad, which means they have a better chance of playing first team football somewhere.
You think they have a better chance of developing at Utd/Chelsea or making a breakthrough?
 

Montalbano

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another Estonian CB on trial with us

https://sport.err.ee/1138706/nomme-unitedi-keskkaitsja-viibib-tottenham-hotspuris-testimisel


Nõmme United football club announced on social media that the team's 17-year-old central defender Erko Jonne Tõugjas will be on testing with the U-18 team of the English Premier League club Tottenham Hotspur this week
.
17-year-old Tõugjas has represented the Nõmme United representative team in the premier league in 21 matches this year, scoring two goals. In the ranks of the Estonian U-17 team, the central defender has participated in 11 games.

At the beginning of the week, Maksim Paskotch, a pioneer of the Breed, shook hands with the Tottenham Academy. The former Flora defender also underwent a weekly test in August and signed a three-year contract with the London team.
🎶Estonia FC, you'll never sing that! 🎶
 

GetSpurredOn

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Maybe it is a change in approach under the new youth setup. There seems a decent overhaul of the first team going on currently, makes sense an overhaul of the development/academy sides may allow us to start to supply the first team without the need for more drastic spends.
 

IGSpur

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You think they have a better chance of developing at Utd/Chelsea or making a breakthrough?
Better chance of developing and ending up at a higher standard after they've left compared to here, and as good or better chance of getting into their first teams, especially as CBs for Chelsea and generally for United.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

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Better chance of developing and ending up at a higher standard after they've left compared to here, and as good or better chance of getting into their first teams, especially as CBs for Chelsea and generally for United.
You're comparing current Chelsea and Utd with Poch Spurs.

There are plenty of reasons to believe that things have changed at Spurs over the past year.
 

JamieSpursCommunityUser

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Better chance of developing and ending up at a higher standard after they've left compared to here, and as good or better chance of getting into their first teams, especially as CBs for Chelsea and generally for United.
When it comes to the club facilitating game time and loans for young players, I think it's premature to say how that's going to look going forward.

Yes there's a strong argument that we've squandered talent through mis-managed loans, or those stuck in the Walker-Peters zone until their early 20s.

But how that translates to Mourinho, Rastrick, Hitchen, and Birch shaping our youth development going forward is less clear to me. That's a fairly radical shake of up the club at all levels - could be more of the same, could be completely new strategies who knows?

My hope is we'll be moving to a model of finding partnership clubs and good quality loans to improve players, and enhance the value / career prospects of the 95%+ who won't play for us.

Fundamentally that might mean not necessarily taking the best financial offer for each loan, in favour of longer term gains. Something I'm not sure has always been the case.
 
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ralphs bald spot

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Partnership clubs are a bit of a myth at least with clubs in England I don't think any club has that I am not sure that it would be allowed under the rules - clubs will look at loaning from a certain club as they know the structure is strong and they get players of a certain type - that said I know Chelsea have used Vitesse and United Royal Antwerp abroad -

our record with loans has been very poor when developing players for the first team for a load of different reasons but we do seem to miss a loan manager since Sherwood moved on and that wasn't his primary job Chelsea have Cudicini and before him Newton - my perception was that Mcdermott was a little over protective of youngsters and loans were kind of forced on him - and though its unfair to be to critical of him I do think he was striving for the perfect player, I know that some clubs were reluctant to take Spurs boys (find it hard to adapt) and though they all had their individual plans I think we missed a few tricks and as result some players didn't develop as they could have
 

Sophos151

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Partnership clubs are a bit of a myth at least with clubs in England I don't think any club has that I am not sure that it would be allowed under the rules - clubs will look at loaning from a certain club as they know the structure is strong and they get players of a certain type - that said I know Chelsea have used Vitesse and United Royal Antwerp abroad -

our record with loans has been very poor when developing players for the first team for a load of different reasons but we do seem to miss a loan manager since Sherwood moved on and that wasn't his primary job Chelsea have Cudicini and before him Newton - my perception was that Mcdermott was a little over protective of youngsters and loans were kind of forced on him - and though its unfair to be to critical of him I do think he was striving for the perfect player, I know that some clubs were reluctant to take Spurs boys (find it hard to adapt) and though they all had their individual plans I think we missed a few tricks and as result some players didn't develop as they could have
I don't think there's any official partnerships between Premier League clubs and Football League clubs, not of that kind, but there's definitely been unofficial partnerships of that type. People who work in football know each other, and use those relationships to set up favourable deals - for example, us and Swindon - Tim Sherwood sent them four of our players in one season while his mate Lee Power was their director of football.
 

IGSpur

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You're comparing current Chelsea and Utd with Poch Spurs.

There are plenty of reasons to believe that things have changed at Spurs over the past year.
Ye. I'm comparing what I know now compared to the unknown.

Chelsea and United always get really good loans, even if we do start sending more out on loan, we need to find out whether the loans will be as good.

I also don't know how good Mourinho will be at integrating academy kids. I'm already worried about Tanganga and how he fits in with the potential new signing.

Since Caulker and they also have Bruma who is the same age.
We've had Veljkovic playing in the Bundesliga and they have Ake (now at City).
CCV who has a lot of Championship experience like Clark Salter.
Binks left to go Bologna and they had Panzo

Now we have Tanganga who has managed to get some starts but they:

They currently have Tomori and Christensen regularly in their first team, Guehi playing regularly for Swansea, Trevoh Chalobah who is Tanganga's age group has played a lot of Championship football and now in Ligue 1.

I don't know how we will progress but I'm just saying that at Chelsea in recent times have a better chance of making it into their first team as a CB or getting really good experience compared to us, so why would you gamble especially with Mourinho's reputation and come here, whereas you have a better chance there.
 

vintagespurs

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We are playing catch up but there is definitely a new mentality. Things are changing at the club and we are now managing our young players better. We are evolving. It is like the reaction we have had to our best kids being snatched. We arw now signing them on 3 year dwals when they are 15 instead of risking hem leaving at 16.

We should also remember that when we lament Madueke, Forson and Binks departures just off the top of my head I can name every big 6 club that has had at least one of their best prospects leave eg Binoe Gittens Man City, Musah Woolwich, Panzo Chelsea, Gomes Man U, Duncan Liverpool. Knowing that we are taking measures to change this situation is encouraging and gives us hope that we have learnt our lesson.
 

DogsOfWar

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I suspect Mourinho's influence of all things football may be the driver behind a lot of the changes.

I think Levy sees Mourinho as the kind of half DoF/half manager that Fergie was and he has always craved.

Apart from being an intelligent manager he brings the experience of how things are done at Chelsea, United, Real, Inter, and Porto to our club.

I'm fairly sure that experience has told him what works and what doesn't in terms of structure and Levy will have taken this on board and reacted to it, hence lots of wholesale changes throughout the club.

And, hopefully, we'll see our youngsters benefit from it.
 

IGSpur

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We are playing catch up but there is definitely a new mentality. Things are changing at the club and we are now managing our young players better. We are evolving. It is like the reaction we have had to our best kids being snatched. We arw now signing them on 3 year dwals when they are 15 instead of risking hem leaving at 16.
I agree there is a new mentality but I'm fairly sure you can't put 15 year olds on 3 year contracts, the only way to really protect them is by showing them a pathway and enticing them to stay if not they will end up leaving.

We should also remember that when we lament Madueke, Forson and Binks departures just off the top of my head I can name every big 6 club that has had at least one of their best prospects leave eg Binoe Gittens Man City, Musah Woolwich, Panzo Chelsea, Gomes Man U, Duncan Liverpool. Knowing that we are taking measures to change this situation is encouraging and gives us hope that we have learnt our lesson.
There will always be a bottle neck. As I've got on about for ages, our clubs are producing are ridiculous amount of first team players abilitywise, yet they all just can't come through, so some will leave. The difference between us and the other clubs mentioned are at least they are then bringing through their biggest talents, while this goes on.

City - Foden as it stands. They've got so many others I could mention Harwood-Bellis, Delap, Doyle, McAtee bla bla bla, but even if they don't come through they brought through their crown, their jewel that represented their academy. Him and Sancho were their talents and they got through the local boy, I think that would've been the fans' preference.
United - Ye they lost Gomes, but they brought through Greenwood, who was on a par with Gomes I'd say in terms of being a jewel, and Rashford.
Chelsea - Mount, Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, James, RLC even Gilmour, were all the top players in their age groups.
Arsenal - Nelson, Nketiah, Saka
Liverpool - TAA and they're starting to give Jones chances

We have brought through Winks in all that time, which is the equivalent to Maitland-Niles, Lingard, Fosu-Mensah, Willock, Tomori, McTominay. Relative to their academy standings I might say Willock and Tomori could fit the first lot and Rashford could've gone in this bit but he came through so early it'd be unfair to pass that judgement, but you see my point.

You will always lose some of your top talents our issue was that none of them came through, whereas the other clubs could at least say their real guns got chances. Tanganga is the only one I'd cautiously say is getting that chance.
 

IGSpur

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I suspect Mourinho's influence of all things football may be the driver behind a lot of the changes.

I think Levy sees Mourinho as the kind of half DoF/half manager that Fergie was and he has always craved.

Apart from being an intelligent manager he brings the experience of how things are done at Chelsea, United, Real, Inter, and Porto to our club.

I'm fairly sure that experience has told him what works and what doesn't in terms of structure and Levy will have taken this on board and reacted to it, hence lots of wholesale changes throughout the club.

And, hopefully, we'll see our youngsters benefit from it.
Ye I really hope so. Though I am worried about JT as I said above. And what happens to Cirkin more than White. I really don't want Cirkin wasting this year and would love for him to get out on loan or get chances.
 

DogsOfWar

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Ye I really hope so. Though I am worried about JT as I said above. And what happens to Cirkin more than White. I really don't want Cirkin wasting this year and would love for him to get out on loan or get chances.
I agree as I feel Tanganga did enough to justify considerable game time this season but Jose is going to be ultra conservative this year to push us forward as much as possible. And if Skriniar comes in he's fifth choice and won't see any game time.
Hopefully there's some forward planning in terms of arranging a possible loan for Japhet if we do get our man.
Ditto for Cirkin now Reguilon has been bought in.
 

C0YS

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Not to be a negative Ned but I just can't see why they'd think it'd be clever to send to of their best CBs here. Maybe to help each other settle? Unless we were the only clubs after them. But I'd have definitely gone United or Chelsea. Your chance of making it is slim, but at least they have excellent links with clubs for loans here and aborad, which means they have a better chance of playing first team football somewhere.
I mean with Lampard it might change, but Chelsea's youth farming isn't good for youth development, in fact it's exactly the opposite you get put on that conveyor belt and end up staying there often until your mid-20s, going through the exhaustion of going club to club without ever having the stability and structure to help you grow, settle and produce your best work.

I'd say when looking at Chelsea's youth, there is a lot of talent there, a lot of it wasted and a lot of youth players hate it. Josh McEachran, Piazon and Panzo have all publically complained about Chelsea's system, and even Andros Townsend has mentioned how being loaned out all the time affected his mental health etc.


Chelsea is really not a model to look at. When you look at previously special talents in Baker and Piazon, they haven't moved on, still bieng farmed out on loan, having to re adapt, reintegrate, prove themselves at a club rinse repeat. No stable life, home, or friend groups. That's a lot to ask out people and it can't be good for your development. Baker is 25, three years ago people thought he could contribute to a top level team, before that he was super hyped. Now he is just going through the motions. Piazon was also very hyped, he is 26 still reluctantly with Chelsea. This guy was getting La liga loans 8 years ago, at 18, he hasn't moved on from that. But how can he? The loan system makes it very hard to really develop and see career progression. It has its limits.
 
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SecretLemonadeDrinker

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I agree there is a new mentality but I'm fairly sure you can't put 15 year olds on 3 year contracts, the only way to really protect them is by showing them a pathway and enticing them to stay if not they will end up leaving.



There will always be a bottle neck. As I've got on about for ages, our clubs are producing are ridiculous amount of first team players abilitywise, yet they all just can't come through, so some will leave. The difference between us and the other clubs mentioned are at least they are then bringing through their biggest talents, while this goes on.

City - Foden as it stands. They've got so many others I could mention Harwood-Bellis, Delap, Doyle, McAtee bla bla bla, but even if they don't come through they brought through their crown, their jewel that represented their academy. Him and Sancho were their talents and they got through the local boy, I think that would've been the fans' preference.
United - Ye they lost Gomes, but they brought through Greenwood, who was on a par with Gomes I'd say in terms of being a jewel, and Rashford.
Chelsea - Mount, Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, James, RLC even Gilmour, were all the top players in their age groups.
Arsenal - Nelson, Nketiah, Saka
Liverpool - TAA and they're starting to give Jones chances

We have brought through Winks in all that time, which is the equivalent to Maitland-Niles, Lingard, Fosu-Mensah, Willock, Tomori, McTominay. Relative to their academy standings I might say Willock and Tomori could fit the first lot and Rashford could've gone in this bit but he came through so early it'd be unfair to pass that judgement, but you see my point.

You will always lose some of your top talents our issue was that none of them came through, whereas the other clubs could at least say their real guns got chances. Tanganga is the only one I'd cautiously say is getting that chance.
Tanganga and Skipp.

And, in addition to Winks, let’s not forget that it wasn’t that long ago that another Harry broke through. And, frankly, he pisses over every other player to have come through any other academy in England over the past decade.
 
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