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Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

Should Poch stay or go?

  • Stay

    Votes: 657 55.3%
  • Go

    Votes: 532 44.7%

  • Total voters
    1,189

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Let me ask you something, have you heard of one bid, or any real solid interest in ANY of the players wanting out? Toby for £25M is peanuts, wouldn't even have to haggle with Levy, even before the clause came in, was there any interest? Seam for Eriksen, have we had a report of ANY solid interest or and bid for the player?

The answer is no, and in my opinion the reason is simply this, they were happy to see out their contracts in order to get a free transfer. So they instructed their agents to simply tell any club they weren't interested in a move. How can Levy sell a player if he doesn't get a offer?

By not allowing players to get in to the last 12 months of their contract in the first place.
If a player has 2 years left on contract, then to avoid this situation, that is the time player needs to be sold, and for realistic not the prohibitive sales prices we placed on them.
Conscious decision was taken by club to keep them, so to say there was nothing Levy could do may be correct if you want to take this last window in isolation, but not acting a year earlier has caused this, and at that stage there was plenty the club could have done if they had so chosen, and plenty of interest. By not acting then player has zero incentive to ever sign a new contract, until his current one was fully expired.
So it is very disingenuous for anybody to be blaming the players who have entered last year of their contract, the fault for this lies with both manager and chairman, but it is the manager alone that will end up paying for it with his job (but get nice pay off) and us as fans, as the replacement of these players to even keep the status quo will be much harder to achieve when we don’t have the sales income, so may have to accept a team downgrade.
 
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Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
In.

But he hasn't got much time to turn this around. I said a few weeks back I'd like to see him given until Watford.

Need to see a minimum of 4 points from the next two games.

I do fear if we lose at Brighton we may well see a mutual termination of his contract.

Need a convincing win with quality on Sat.

I agree with this.
I think if we lose at Brighton he is gone.
It would be the ideal time for club to do it, if they feel it cannot he turned around, (and Levy will know hell of a lot more of what is happening behind the scenes), with the International break following this game.

Just get the feeling this Saturday could be another Martin Jol moment, with the fans singing Poch’s name throughout game, poor performance, and that is last we see of him.
 
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rambu

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
529
890
There's always a third option you know...

90
 

Chimbo!

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,558
3,291
I voted Poch out.

I like the guy and I do think he is a good Manager, getting to Finals and being a runner up is great but we need more than that, maybe he (Levy) just needs to freshen things up and Poch can turn this all around, and maybe Levy will freshen it up and we will get 6 more years of Mediocrity, IDK, Poch out is solely because he seems to have some players that won't play for him and he has no Idea of how to fix it, I for 1 am done seeing scores like 7-2 @ Home none the less.
I’m so glad you’re not the chairman.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Not picking on you as this happens a fair bit. where a manager is nearing the end and its like oh he has one game to save his job... Say we do get four points, but we lose a couple after - then what? Thats why I dont think its a case of oh win next game or youre out kind of scenario

Thee squad is an issue for Poch and giving him say two games to win doesnt really solve the issue - the only way to solve it is time... which will then allow us to get one or two more in particularly full backs etc

Because a line has to be drawn somewhere.

I've also looked as those three games in isolation. Southampton at home, Brighton away and Watford at home should be a minimum of 7 points. If we lose another away game at Brighton after the most embarrassing defeat in the CL I would say he's lost the dressing room.

If as you say we lost the next two after Watford I'd give him more time as those games are Liverpool and Red Star. A far superior team we could easily lose and a competition some would say we'd be best out of.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
For those grumbling about not moving on players who don't appear to want to be here anymore - players have become much more savvy and have much craftier agents than a few years ago. Players have always had a lot more power over their career choices than I think even some of them realised, they just wanted to play and get a decent wage.

Now you've got a new tier of clubs willing to offer mega-wages that most clubs can't even dream of matching, but that's, what, maybe six teams in Europe? So that's no more than 66 first team players, with maybe the same again squad slots? So while there's 300 players all consider themselves worthy of a shot in those teams, there's only so many places so they need to make themselves as attractive a prospect as possible and removing a transfer fee is perfect for both the new club and the player.

Any offer accepted by your current club before you contract runs out? Just refuse to sign for the new club, sit out your contract and heads will turn your way.

In the past, a club accepted a transfer fee and off you went because you need a job and you'll get playing time there, wages were all very average. Now, a free transfer means the difference between the new club offering £150k a week and offering £300k a week and a signing on bonus.

Don't be surprised to see a lot of this in the next few years - my concern is how it will affect the clubs lower down the league who stumble across a dynamite youngster and who, in the past, would've seen a boost to their coffers, will now have a sulky teenager leave and get nothing when they leave to join a bigger club.
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,451
18,966
By not allowing players to get in to the last 12 months of their contract in the first place.
If a player has 2 years left on contract, then to avoid this situation, that is the time player needs to be sold, and for realistic not the prohibitive sales prices we placed on them.
Conscious decision was taken by club to keep them, so to say there was nothing Levy could do may be correct if you want to take this last window in isolation, but not acting a year earlier has caused this, and at that stage there was plenty the club could have done if they had so chosen, and plenty of interest. By not acting then player has zero incentive to ever sign a new contract, until his current one was fully expired.
So it is very disingenuous for anybody to be blaming the players who have entered last year of their contract, the fault for this lies with both manager and chairman, but it is the manager alone that will end up paying for it with his job (but get nice pay off) and us as fans, as the replacement of these players to even keep the status quo will be much harder to achieve when we don’t have the sales income, so may have to accept a team downgrade.

When you look at this in reality, again Toby decided he wanted to leave on a free several seasons ago, we cannot force him to leave, stick him on the bench I hear you say. He has been nothing but professional and that would just lower his price significantly.

With Eriksen its slightly different, he strung us along for seasons, even saying PUBLICALLY that he would be open to signing a contract if the right more didn't turn up.. he clearly lied through his teeth in order to keep the fans on side and also not disrupt the team.

You cannot sell a player who doesn't want to leave, we cannot bench a player a player of either Eriksen or Toby's ability as the chances of us getting a like for like replacement is none, we also decrease his value so me might as well play them. We are going to see more of this btw, not just with us, Ramsey set the standard by getting £400K a week. One good thing about it is player prices should fall if players leaving on a free continues.
 

robin09

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
6,800
7,697
Everyone who has said they want Poch to go, have all used some form of 'because we need to win trophies, he can't take us further, we need to move to the next level'.

The next level, is the very top. Which is obviously the hardest, most competitive position to reach. Especially given Man City's funding.

What nobody really seems to be considering when saying they don't want Poch anymore, is that Poch leaving, and some unknown manager coming in, could quite as easily mean we regress and drop a level. Look less likely to win trophies. Get to less cup finals.

It's a huge risk to remove the coaching staff, and it seems like the assumption is, it's just a case of picking someone 'better'.
 

g_harry

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2005
2,909
4,574
Its almost like Toby, Jan & Eriksen have got together and in response to not getting the wages they want have said fine well see out our contracts. They got you there Levy. A big fuck you Levy.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
So, as of around 9:00 today, our manager still retains a large majority of the SC fan base’s support.

With 647 votes cast, 60.6% want him to stay, a margin of 21.2%
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Is there a shake it all about option?

(Sorry if already done but couldn’t be arsed to thread through whole thread).
Yes, but it’s a secret option only available to a select few. For more information on how you can unlock these special benefits, call now on 0808 919...
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
Its almost like Toby, Jan & Eriksen have got together and in response to not getting the wages they want have said fine well see out our contracts. They got you there Levy. A big fuck you Levy.
Except Jan seems to want a contract, but doesn't appear to have been offered one.
Toby has been offered a contract, but doesn't want one.
Eriksen has also been offered a contract but wants to play in La Liga and is obviously seeing that the only way they'll take him is on a free



It's strange how much information people are willing to ignore to make their anti-levy agenda stick
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
What nobody really seems to be considering when saying they don't want Poch anymore, is that Poch leaving, and some unknown manager coming in, could quite as easily mean we regress and drop a level.

Two things:

1) because, for once, we seem to have the chance to not get an "unknown", but a top tier manager in who is a serial winner (e.g. Mou or allegri)
2) because, personally, I'm sick to death of hearing that "Poch has taken this team as far as he can". It's such tripe. Anyone would think we have Burnley's squad. No one says that about Klopp who, for the most part, has a squad that is arguably weaker. We have a big stadium, world class facilities, and a squad oozing when talent, and I'm fed up of people using Pochs shortcomings and reversing them against the team. We struggled for decades to find or sign a Harry Kane, and Poch can't win trophies with him when he quite frankly should be
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Its almost like Toby, Jan & Eriksen have got together and in response to not getting the wages they want have said fine well see out our contracts. They got you there Levy. A big fuck you Levy.

Which would be fair enough if they all felt they were being vastly underpaid, but I don't think this is all to do with wages. Eriksen has always had a career plan that involved moving to one of the big Spanish clubs. With current transfer fees moving on a free is the easiest way to achieve it. Jan keeps saying that he wants to stay. I get the impression that we left it late to offer him a new contract because of his age and probably expected him to jump at the chance to sign an extension. Toby is probably the one where wages have been the key issue if all the rumours about the contract offer are true.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
So, as of around 9:00 today, our manager still retains a large majority of the SC fan base’s support.

With 647 votes cast, 60.6% want him to stay, a margin of 21.2%

If you've got an office of 18 people and 6/7/8 of them have handed in their notice, then would you expect productivity in that office to be high or low?

High: 60.6%
low: 39.4%
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Actually N'Dombele is a clone if you like of Dembele, sure they have different aspects of their game, but if you were looking for a like to like replacement, then he would be it, however, his fitness isn't up to point yet and Poch has alluded to that. Don't be forgiven that he isn't fit, he is, but he isn't Poch system fit and that is a different kettle of fish. Given time you will see the defensive qualities of N'Dombele for sure.

Sissoko is a funny one though - the guy can run and run, but he doesn't really have a defined role in any position and at 30 years old is past it where Poch is concerned. Winks is playing in the wrong role period - he isn't a DM by name, but more of a playmaker that can command the central area, but not defensive like Wanyama or Dier.

In a traditional 4-3-2-1 you would most def have someone like Dier as your typical ball winner. He won't engage in attacking situations but instead offer a protective shield in front of the defenders, Toby and Jan or Sanchez.

Winks, N'Dombele and even Lo Celso will offer more of an outlet in attacking phases and will contribute defensively in a defensive phase. Both Lo Celso and N'Dombele are exactly what we need and Lo Celso can play a variety of roles very well and that excites me a lot. N'Dombele, given time will be one of the most sought after players in Europe in his position. Looking at it like that, then yes things look very good, but that doesn't really tell the whole story. If Levy is brave and results can come our way, then there is a chance that Poch hets out this well, but right now it doesn't look good. Looking at it objectively - Poch needs a bloody lot in terms of players. for a start you have to take out all the players that are either wanting to go or just are not able to do the press anymore.

Im not sure the way Ndombele plays that he should kill himself playing up and down footie. His value to me is hitting those passes.Its something we havent had. He puts a lot of effort into dribbling and getting forward and with his style of running I think he needs 2 midfielders behind him,one covering defence (Dier type)and one central (Winks) and Sissoko can probably just fill in for NDombele.
But then there is Lo Celso and it would be nice how and exactly where he will play.
Then you have Lamela and Dele who on their day can make a difference but have not lived up to the highest of what we aspire too.Talented both but would need to kick it up more.

So its back to the DM position Im most concerned about. Is Dier enough? I dont believe Winks can be that player in front of defence. If we push Ndombele more forward in Eriksens position he certainly can create (not in the same way Eriksen might) and Winks could play as a CM behind him but we weed need a top grade DM. Get the backs and CBs sorted and we are away to the races
 

swarvsta

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2008
773
4,061
This thread truly saddens me.

Poch deserves our loyalty, surely? He has earned that.

We are on a bad run, for a reasonably long time, but we have to give him a chance to reverse this.

If he was to leave any time before the end of the season, it would be a definite knee-jerk reaction.
 

jonnyrotten

SC Supporter
Aug 16, 2006
2,114
3,721
Its almost like Toby, Jan & Eriksen have got together and in response to not getting the wages they want have said fine well see out our contracts. They got you there Levy. A big fuck you Levy.
Well at least two of the three have received and rejected multiple offers of new contracts with much higher wages. CE has always said it's not about the money. I for one am glad that we haven't got an extra £50m on our wage bill at the moment, especially considering the lack of effort being put in by the players.
 
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