Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

[jimmyh]

I think even though we held our own in the 1st half and should have went in ahead at half time, we really needed to get Winks out of there and put Dier in to give us a bit more defensively.
The problem has been Poch seems unable to react quick enough to things that are staring him and everyone else in the face.
I don't believe we should be playing the diamond again and also think Winks needs taken out along with Sissoko we need a bit more bite in midfield and get back to our pressing game that made us so hard to beat for a few years.

 

[soup]

We all knew Poch had money to spend but were the right players available? It took an age to shift the last batch... Again Liverpool was the example of waiting for the right players. Are you sure Klopp would win the league with this squad. He couldn’t do that with a better squad last season.

Well if we had the money to spend, but the players didn't want to come but we still didn't get backups because Poch didn't want them then whos fault is it apart from his? Liverpool did get the positions they needed but they were also using squad players effectively and they weren't all superstars. Origi managed to do pretty well in the CL for them. Lovren was transformed under Klopp and Shakiri was brought in to do a job and did very well when needed.

As for winning the league with Klopp, I dunno, I can't guarantee that. The Leicester year though? Definitely.

 

[double0]

I don't know about you fella, but watching my team get destroyed and by the biggest ever defeat at in our history makes me look very carefully at why and look at likely culprits and see if there are trends that have been appearing over a set period of time and low and behold there is, only I see one main person at fault, but you crack on and support your club or is it, manager, I'm not sure? Either way, it's nice to know we are all singing the same tune and that we want the best for our club.

I didn't actually think I was that clever tbh, as I thought the likely scenarios were pretty obvious - thanks anyway

Not sure what your age is. I have seen a lot of false dawns, promises, managers players come and go. Pochettinho generally has been great for the club and it would be nice to see him succeed. I believe the intention is to be better but sometimes you need to push the boat out for the very top targets not second or third choices.

 

[double0]

I think even though we held our own in the 1st half and should have went in ahead at half time, we really needed to get Winks out of there and put Dier in to give us a bit more defensively.
The problem has been Poch seems unable to react quick enough to things that are staring him and everyone else in the face.
I don't believe we should be playing the diamond again and also think Winks needs taken out along with Sissoko we need a bit more bite in midfield and get back to our pressing game that made us so hard to beat for a few years.

Maybe that's the issue with some players Pochettinho wants out not working to instructions.

 

[Dougal]

Question for my fellow Poch-inners

If Poch decided to say fuck it, he's going to write this season off in order to prepare for the next one and that means the likes of Aurier, Alder, Vert, Rose being dropped for the likes of KWP, Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon in order to develop them. Would you be happy? Obviously I can't imagine all 4 are causing big enough problems but if he decided to drop 2-3 of these from now on to focus on the development of the players he plans on being him next season at the expense of this season would you stick it out until the end or would it be the straw that broke the camels back?

I ask as I don't know how I'd feel about it.

Need to find a balance. So important to retain a top 4 spot, which I think is possible if they sort their shit out. If the season is going nowhere, then refresh and plan ahead. It’s only October 2nd and all we know for certain is we won’t win the League Cup.

 

[double0]

Well if we had the money to spend, but the players didn't want to come but we still didn't get backups because Poch didn't want them then whos fault is it apart from his? Liverpool did get the positions they needed but they were also using squad players effectively and they weren't all superstars. Origi managed to do pretty well in the CL for them. Lovren was transformed under Klopp and Shakiri was brought in to do a job and did very well when needed.

As for winning the league with Klopp, I dunno, I can't guarantee that. The Leicester year though? Definitely.

Arsenal finished second that season. Pochettinho hasn't done that bad people have short memories and yeah football moves very quickly.

 

[soup]

Arsenal finished second that season. Pochettinho hasn't done that bad people have short memories and yeah football moves very quickly.

He definitely hasn't done that badly at all, and I'm getting no enjoyment of this as I'm sure 99% of others on here are either. I hate to feel this way about him, as he's great, but it's not me telling him to leave after the final, or mope around, or decline transfers. That is him. I wish he'd change. If we could have a rosey future with Poch or without Poch, I'd prefer the rosey future with him in it. I don't think he feels the same about us though. Would we like him to stay long term? Yes. Would Poch guarantee that if RM came calling. I'm not so sure. He made it pretty clear he'd leave if we won the CL. Short memories cut both ways.

 

[Jaddas]

I voted for him to stay for as I'm unsure whether there is anyone out there who is better. We're still the lowest spenders and payers of the top 6. Can't see Allegri or Mourinho accepting some of the transfer antics Poch has had to put up with. Furthermore, I think he does deserve the time to put it right, considering what he has done for us.

He just needs to stop being so bloody stubborn and ditch the diamond. If that's the players biggest problem with him, then ditching it should bring them back onside, along with less nonsense out of his mouth and less of picking his favourites (if that's what happens).

As much as yesterday was shambolic, Bayern had 10 shots on target and scored with 7. A 70% success rate, which is insane. Comparatively, we had 8 on target and scored 2.

IMO, tactics, motivation and team selection is solely on Poch but squad staleness and contract expiry is probably all Levy.

 

[fletch82]

I would love to know from all of the "Out" brigade who the hell they think we are going to get in his place?

Jambon hammybone
He has his own oyster card and likes buses.
I'm sure he will be a instant success with his 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 formation that always works on fifa.

I voted stay for what it's worth but I'm probably in the undecided camp at present.

 

[andy00900]

Question for my fellow Poch-inners

If Poch decided to say fuck it, he's going to write this season off in order to prepare for the next one and that means the likes of Aurier, Alder, Vert, Rose being dropped for the likes of KWP, Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon in order to develop them. Would you be happy? Obviously I can't imagine all 4 are causing big enough problems but if he decided to drop 2-3 of these from now on to focus on the development of the players he plans on being him next season at the expense of this season would you stick it out until the end or would it be the straw that broke the camels back?

I ask as I don't know how I'd feel about it.

Imo Poch should've played KWP more in previous seasons and maybe he would be first choice by now or at least a choice. Likewise for Skipp and Foyth yes these arnt £40m players and probably never will be but if they had been given more of a chance in the past and one of them had worked out it gives more options and saves the club wasting money on squad players which Poch clearly wants to stop.

I realise that its optimistic thinking we could've risked games in the past to blood the players more and easy to say when Im not the one watching them in training.

As for this season we definitly need to be less reliant on the players we want out/ending contracts especially the ones that are a liability. The limit for the club is likely Europa but with all the players needing out its hard to see us bringing in successful replacements across the board. We have to have a plan B from within and these players are not going to improve without first team apperances.

 

[Wsussexspur]

Question for my fellow Poch-inners

If Poch decided to say fuck it, he's going to write this season off in order to prepare for the next one and that means the likes of Aurier, Alder, Vert, Rose being dropped for the likes of KWP, Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon in order to develop them. Would you be happy? Obviously I can't imagine all 4 are causing big enough problems but if he decided to drop 2-3 of these from now on to focus on the development of the players he plans on being him next season at the expense of this season would you stick it out until the end or would it be the straw that broke the camels back?

I ask as I don't know how I'd feel about it.

I think last night was the straw that broke the camels back for me in terms of this squad and I hope for Potch as well, Aurier needs to be dropped and told to find himself a new club in January.. I don’t think KWP is good enough but think we should give him run in the team now and be told this is his chance to prove a lot of us wrong and that he does have what it takes to play at the level we are aiming to play at,

With Jan and Toby I think it’s time to play one of them with Sanchez or Foyth or the youngster who impressed during preseason (can’t spell his name). I’ve had feeling for some time that Toby is holding out for a move to somewhere like China so maybe in January we might be able to sell him over there.

Left back pretty much same situation as with the right back, I think I’d tell Rose he can go in January and we should help him find a club the best we can. Meanwhile play Davies and obviously we have Sessegnon who can play there when fit. I think he is more of a left winger though.

Midfield wise Wanyamma needs to be told to find new club in January even if it means loaning him out.

Dier should be given run of games with one of sissoko, Winks, Ndombele next to him.

Finally Eriksen think we have players who we should prioritise in his position at the mo.
With regards to Potch we all know him and Levy had a meeting earlier this season which apparently cleared the air between them so the question may have already been asked. But if not I hope Levy sits down with Potch looks him directly in the eyes and asks do you still have the hunger to be manager of Tottenham Hotspur football club and rebuild this squad with the view of taking us to the next level.. i,e winning trophies challenging Man City Liverpool etc for the title. Obviously Potch will also need Levy to confirm there will significant be funds available to do this.

If Potch doesn’t have hunger to be here then maybe it’s time for parting of the ways... I really hope that isn’t the case though.

 

[JayB]

After having slept on it and gotten over the sheer embarrassment, here's where I stand:

1. The Diamond is our biggest problem. It leaves the CBs and the flanks completely exposed, leaves us narrow in attack, and requires the players to cover so much ground that they're exhausting themselves quickly into matches. We used to be compact, solid, and visibly more fit than our opponents week in, week out. No we're wide open and the players are dead on their feet. It's the formation, and that's on Poch.
2. The squad is a legitimate problem. Dier is the only player who can even potentially provide what we're missing in midfield, and if we're honest with ourselves he hasn't been even close to his best form since 2017. Even if he were to recapture his best form, he doesn't possess the mobility, ball skills, and quick passing to cover the ground necessary, resist the press, and keep play ticking over the way modern No. 6s are asked to do. The right back situation speaks for itself. We've left ourselves short in key areas, yet again.
3. There's clearly something wrong in the camp. For me it's a combination of issues one and two. The players being asked to do an impossible task can't be helping matters, and the fact that there are blatantly a number of players who should have been shifted and replaced (Wanyama, Rose, and Aurier not to mention the contract rebels) who Levy didn't manage to get rid of means that there are a lot of senior players who aren't fully committed.

Poch can't do anything about the squad until January but he does have some agency over the issues underlying the formation and the lack of togetherness. He's got to make changes, and soon, or else he'll rightly be sacked. It appears he's been given a stay of execution, and I'm fine with that given all the goodwill he's earned, but he needs to make massive changes.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Not sure what your age is. I have seen a lot of false dawns, promises, managers players come and go. Pochettinho generally has been great for the club and it would be nice to see him succeed. I believe the intention is to be better but sometimes you need to push the boat out for the very top targets not second or third choices.

My age is irrelevant tbh, but I have supported the club for 42 years and yep seen many managers come and go and seen a few win trophies too and remember General Burkinshaw taking us to European glory, as well as a couple of cups, any way to the point are we at a stage where we can get the best players? Yeah I think we can and that has been proven with the summer signings. If you consider that Lo Celso will more than likely sign for £50m once the loan has finished? The fact that we were seemingly serious about signing Dybala too, so all good on that front perhaps?

I think with the situation regarding Poch, you need to be objective and look more into why he is having such a hard time of it right now. The things that he has been good at are failing him and in every way and no one can deny that, no matter how ardent a fan of his you are. Motivating - can't motivate the players anymore, His system - can't make it work due to players not being able to anymore (there are some good articles on Poch's counter-press and gives you an insight into how it works and the kind of players needed for it to work).

There are more things than just the above, but we have to be realistic and not decide if Poch is good enough based on previous seasons where he had all those things in place, but rather if he has the ability to turnaround these terrible performances. I have made my position clear and don't think he can, but it's not my decision.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

We need to get a few of the players out of here, not Poch.

 

['O Zio]

Stay

But he needs to cut out the grumpy/sulky attitude that's early been creeping into all aspects of the club and go back to his old self AND we need an overhaul of the players. There's clearly been a breakdown in the relationship between him and certain star players so we need to freshen things up IMO.

 

[rez9000]

If it’s all about the lack of cups under Poch, then how the hell would everyone be reacting if we’d actually won the CL last season?

‘We’re the Champions of this tournament, we shouldn’t be losing to Bayern 7-2!’

if trophies is ALL that’s important, you’re going to be very disappointed even if you get what you want.

This I very much agree with - only one team wins any trophy in each year. In the FA Cup - hundreds of teams don't. In the Tinpot Cup - 91 don't. The idea that it has to be the pot to denote success is a little bit skewed. The key point is whether a team competes well for those trophies.

Obviously that's not to say I don't want us to win one or that they're not important, only that expecting to win one smacks a little of entitlement.

 

[dere911]

Idk why poch so stubborn to drop the diamond formation. I feel like it’s a big fuck You to levy from poch. I mean when something doesn’t work why persist on it ?

This is basically self sabotage

 

[EastLondonYid]

Stay

But he needs to cut out the grumpy/sulky attitude that's early been creeping into all aspects of the club and go back to his old self AND we need an overhaul of the players. There's clearly been a breakdown in the relationship between him and certain star players so we need to freshen things up IMO.

I was at the stadium today on a tour.... A senior figure was there and got chatting to him, poch kept the players in the changing rooms for ages and they missed the usual press interviews.. But we were told Poch won't walk, he is fully committed and wants and will fix our problems...
Your spot on though, he has to get back to the Poch we fell in love with... Not this grumpy version.

 

[NorthernYido]

As far as my observations go, he won the league cup, Europe League, and finish 2nd with a team that is, imo, much worse than ours.

If we want to keep players like Kane, we need to be winning stuff. For all the good Poch has done, even when we reach the odd final we never actually look like a team that can win.

Personally I don't think Maureen is the right man but I concede that you've got a good point there.

 

[alexis]

Mourinho seems to be the Poch Out brigades first choice for several reasons.

Loves nurturing youth players through to the first team.

Happy to work on a zero net spend transfer window.

Electrifying style of attacking football.

A master of uniting the dressing room.

Humble media presence, let’s his football do the talking.

God you’re right I apologize