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Player Watch Player Watch: Son Heung-min

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
In Dele’s apparently shit season he has played 5 and 6 games fewer than Grealish and Maddison respectively, with 8 goals compared to Grealish on 7 and Maddison on 6, as well as 4 assists compared to Grealish on 6 and Maddison on 3. He’s also created 6 big chances compared to Grealish’s 6 and Maddison’s 7.

Averaging out Dele’s output in these areas, he’s by far the biggest attacking threat both as a goalscorer and as a creator. You could mitigate that by arguing that Grealish has achieved his stats with a worse performing side, but then you have to account for the fact that basically every attack goes through Grealish at Villa, as is also the case for Maddison at Leicester. Additionally, Dele competes with many more attack minded players at Spurs to get amongst these stats than either Maddison or Grealish do.

We focus on Dele’s frustrating qualities but I’d guess that we’d be frustrated plenty by either of the other two as well. Ultimately if he’s having a bad season, it’s only bad by his own standards and by any other measure he’s actually a highly productive player contributing significantly to anything good we do.
He frustrates the hell out of me but you have a point. Also, almost the entire team has been crap this season so I suppose it’s not fair to just single Dele out.

I think a lot of the criticism stems from what he could be. I miss the 2016-18 Dele
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
He frustrates the hell out of me but you have a point. Also, almost the entire team has been crap this season so I suppose it’s not fair to just single Dele out.

I think a lot of the criticism stems from what he could be. I miss the 2016-18 Dele
As do we all. In fact, we all miss 16-18 Spurs.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
In Dele’s apparently shit season he has played 5 and 6 games fewer than Grealish and Maddison respectively, with 8 goals compared to Grealish on 7 and Maddison on 6, as well as 4 assists compared to Grealish on 6 and Maddison on 3. He’s also created 6 big chances compared to Grealish’s 6 and Maddison’s 7.

Averaging out Dele’s output in these areas, he’s by far the biggest attacking threat both as a goalscorer and as a creator. You could mitigate that by arguing that Grealish has achieved his stats with a worse performing side, but then you have to account for the fact that basically every attack goes through Grealish at Villa, as is also the case for Maddison at Leicester. Additionally, Dele competes with many more attack minded players at Spurs to get amongst these stats than either Maddison or Grealish do.

We focus on Dele’s frustrating qualities but I’d guess that we’d be frustrated plenty by either of the other two as well. Ultimately if he’s having a bad season, it’s only bad by his own standards and by any other measure he’s actually a highly productive player contributing significantly to anything good we do.
People are expecting miracles from Dele his output even when off form is great he unfortunately has been typecasted to play in one position behind Kane however imo is much more flexible then people would give him credit. I feel Dele has been ran to the ground a bit like Kane and its a shame coz that combination has been a wonderful thing to have seen grow from its beginnings.
 

Strikeb4ck

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2010
4,483
9,409
In Dele’s apparently shit season he has played 5 and 6 games fewer than Grealish and Maddison respectively, with 8 goals compared to Grealish on 7 and Maddison on 6, as well as 4 assists compared to Grealish on 6 and Maddison on 3. He’s also created 6 big chances compared to Grealish’s 6 and Maddison’s 7.

Averaging out Dele’s output in these areas, he’s by far the biggest attacking threat both as a goalscorer and as a creator. You could mitigate that by arguing that Grealish has achieved his stats with a worse performing side, but then you have to account for the fact that basically every attack goes through Grealish at Villa, as is also the case for Maddison at Leicester. Additionally, Dele competes with many more attack minded players at Spurs to get amongst these stats than either Maddison or Grealish do.

We focus on Dele’s frustrating qualities but I’d guess that we’d be frustrated plenty by either of the other two as well. Ultimately if he’s having a bad season, it’s only bad by his own standards and by any other measure he’s actually a highly productive player contributing significantly to anything good we do.
That's not the problem with Dele though. He is a productive player with goals/assists in general, we know that. What he is completely lacking in this year though, and what makes Grealish/Maddison the clearly better players this year, is that they can dominate and control a game whereas Dele can't. They are the obvious spark and source of creativity and positivity for their sides. Grealish has the 5th most progressive runs per 90 in the Prem, Maddison has the 8th most smart passes per 90, and both rank in the elite realm of key passes played. Dele isn't anywhere near them in those categories. I think it's very clear with the eye test alone that he has been largely ineffective this season, and perhaps for a while longer than that now.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
That's not the problem with Dele though. He is a productive player with goals/assists in general, we know that. What he is completely lacking in this year though, and what makes Grealish/Maddison the clearly better players this year, is that they can dominate and control a game whereas Dele can't. They are the obvious spark and source of creativity and positivity for their sides. Grealish has the 5th most progressive runs per 90 in the Prem, Maddison has the 8th most smart passes per 90, and both rank in the elite realm of key passes played. Dele isn't anywhere near them in those categories. I think it's very clear with the eye test alone that he has been largely ineffective this season, and perhaps for a while longer than that now.
How about sprints and distance covered?
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
Son needs to remain closer to the goal rather than outside of it. I think that's what Pochetinno was trying to do by playing 3412 or 4312 formation ... Sadly we didn't have powerful wingbacks or complete possesional midfielder to play that formation. Heck I am not even sure why did Pochetinno went for Lo celso and Ndombele so badly if he really wanted to play that formation?

We really need to play 433 to get the maximum output not only from Son but also from Ndombele, Lo Celso. But for that we need a defensively minded midfielder , proper full backs and another goal scoring winger. Not someone like Lamela or even Bergwjin whom I think is better for 4231 !! Hakim Ziyech would have perfect for us...
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
7,958
29,657
Anyone know what happened between Son and Hugo after the end of the 1st half?
 

midge

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2011
400
784
First time we seen any desire in the team. I mean see it quite often in Jose other teams Chelscum Manure Inter....finally we see some of it here
 

wirE

I'm a well-known member
Sep 27, 2005
4,676
5,582
Hugo wasn’t happy with his lack of pressure which allowed Everton to get off the late shot.



In all fairness, Hugo is the captain and he has every right to make a stand when a player is not contributing enough. Looking at the reply from Richarlison's shot; Son is slowly walking back. You can see the reaction from Aurier and Dier that they were not happy.

It could be a question of tiredness or just Son not wanting to make that run because the ball is so far ahead so it wouldn't make any difference...
 

kendoddsdadsdogsdead

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
2,140
3,574
In all fairness, Hugo is the captain and he has every right to make a stand when a player is not contributing enough. Looking at the reply from Richarlison's shot; Son is slowly walking back. You can see the reaction from Aurier and Dier that they were not happy.

It could be a question of tiredness or just Son not wanting to make that run because the ball is so far ahead so it wouldn't make any difference...

I don’t mind them balling each other out to a degree but Hugo should of been on at Dier as well, continually backing off his man. how much protection does he need? Dier needed to take a bit of responsibility too.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,903
Was thinking that Son's time might be coming to an end at Spurs. Many complain at us not successfully cashing in on Eriksen at the right time.

Son is 28 tomorrow and Bergjwin looks able and ready to take his place.

So this summer or next will be the premium time to cash in before he declines.

Son is still one of our best players and would love him to stay an extra season but if we need a rebuild then we'll need to cash in on a few players while their price is at a premium.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
Son needs to remain closer to the goal rather than outside of it. I think that's what Pochetinno was trying to do by playing 3412 or 4312 formation ... Sadly we didn't have powerful wingbacks or complete possesional midfielder to play that formation. Heck I am not even sure why did Pochetinno went for Lo celso and Ndombele so badly if he really wanted to play that formation?

We really need to play 433 to get the maximum output not only from Son but also from Ndombele, Lo Celso. But for that we need a defensively minded midfielder , proper full backs and another goal scoring winger. Not someone like Lamela or even Bergwjin whom I think is better for 4231 !! Hakim Ziyech would have perfect for us...
I think the thought was that Ndombele could be the deeper player of the 2 but he hasn't shown the discipline there.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
Was thinking that Son's time might be coming to an end at Spurs. Many complain at us not successfully cashing in on Eriksen at the right time.

Son is 28 tomorrow and Bergjwin looks able and ready to take his place.

So this summer or next will be the premium time to cash in before he declines.

Son is still one of our best players and would love him to stay an extra season but if we need a rebuild then we'll need to cash in on a few players while their price is at a premium.
No one's price will be at a premium in the next window.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
People keep saying this but ignore the fact that big spenders like Chelsea are already spending big and a relaxation of FFP is allowing the clubs with wealthy owners to spend.

You need a bidding war to get a players price at a premium. Son is a fantastic player for us but he isn't the type of player that top clubs lose their shit to sign. Add to that they will know we aren't in the best financial position given the stadium debt and the fact we borrowed from the government and be able to push the price down.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,903
You need a bidding war to get a players price at a premium. Son is a fantastic player for us but he isn't the type of player that top clubs lose their shit to sign. Add to that they will know we aren't in the best financial position given the stadium debt and the fact we borrowed from the government and be able to push the price down.
Very good sides will be interested in him. Not to Bale levels but he is very highly rated and his marketing impact as the biggest Asian player is also a big selling point.

Our financial situation hardly puts us in a situation where we need to sell players for under their worth. We'll only sell to raise transfer funds.
 

Yid121

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2008
3,463
3,139
Was thinking that Son's time might be coming to an end at Spurs. Many complain at us not successfully cashing in on Eriksen at the right time.

Son is 28 tomorrow and Bergjwin looks able and ready to take his place.

So this summer or next will be the premium time to cash in before he declines.

Son is still one of our best players and would love him to stay an extra season but if we need a rebuild then we'll need to cash in on a few players while their price is at a premium.
I've got to be honest, we've got to keep as many of our best players as possible. Kane will be gone by next summer and if Bergwijn shines who knows if he like many others will do the I need to move to a bigger club card.

This is just falling into the trap of Enic/Levy seeing players as commodities where we sold Walker at a similar time in age /career and look where he's fallen...
 
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