Harry Winks - Leicester City

[Vincent30]

Winks passing sideways or being just calm with the ball - very bad
Winks passing great forward ball - very bad

I wouldn't say that ball is one of the easiest top passes or that ball is massively over hit to their GK either.

video

This is exactly my point though, if passing the ball is his main attribute?! Which i think everyone will say is as i can't think of anything else. Then surely he has to make that pass, for him, it should be bread and butter. He just had to clip it over, it really wasn't that difficult for someone that is meant to be good at passing? Disagree? He had time on the ball, no pressure and could see the run a mile off.

 

[DiVaio]

This is exactly my point though, if passing the ball is his main attribute?! Which i think everyone will say is as i can't think of anything else. Then surely he has to make that pass, for him, it should be bread and butter. He just had to clip it over, it really wasn't that difficult for someone that is meant to be good at passing? Disagree? He had time on the ball, no pressure and could see the run a mile off.

Do you realise that unsuccessful passes can happen?

 

[Eric_s]

Do you realise that unsuccessful passes can happen?

There lies the difference between very good player (find player with pass all the time under no pressure) and average one ( over hit sometimes, under hit sometimes, perfect sometimes, under no pressure).

 

[Thenewcat]

Do you realise that unsuccessful passes can happen?

They happen too often on the rare occasions that something more progressive is tried is the point.

There seems to be a weird undercurrent of ‘why do people hate Harry Winks’ whenever he is criticised. To confirm, I don’t hate Harry Winks. In fact, I love his commitment and his fan like reactions to goals. But he’s gone backwards in the last few years, and is now 24 so talk of potential and improvement is something of a red herring - he probably is what he is at this stage. And what he is in a neat, tidy, bang average premier league midfielder who isn’t good enough for a club of our ambitions. He needs to take more risks with the ball and they need to come off, otherwise we should be shipping him out in the summer. He’s not a 6 and the drop off from Gio and Tanguy to him as an 8 is huge

 

[Vincent30]

Do you realise that unsuccessful passes can happen?

You're missing the point. Passing is his thing right? You haven't disagreed with this or offered anything to the contrary, that was a pretty simple pass for someone who's best attribute is apparently passing. If all he can do is 10 yard passes and nothing else, then he is barely a decent squad player. That's all i'm saying.

 

[chrissivad]

You're missing the point. Passing is his thing right? You haven't disagreed with this or offered anything to the contrary, that was a pretty simple pass for someone who's best attribute is apparently passing. If all he can do is 10 yard passes and nothing else, then he is barely a decent squad player. That's all i'm saying.

Him keeping the ball moving is one of his stronger points. Not sure anyone is saying he will be pinging the ball 30 40 yards.

He had a good game, not sure why people still try and beat our players for any small detail, but hay ho.

 

[Sevens]

I find it weird how there’s a collection of fans who get so upset by Harry effing Winks to the point where you thought he stole their wives, killed their dogs or slapped their moms. He’s a decent squad player, and that’s really what he is at this point. He’s not going to wow anyone, and for a guy who can come in, work hard, and operate within his skill set, that’s fine, I guess. Can he be upgraded on? Likely. And I think that’s a very real possibility in the future (along with Dele). Until then, he’s still going to play, he’s still going to pass sideways, FRAAB and be be the color beige as a midfielder.

They've moved on from the Dier bashing most likely. I think the DM role is the most maligned among online footballing forums. The only DM in recent years I can think of who seemed to be exempt of any kind of OTT criticism was Sandro. Carrick, Parker, Dier etc all came in for slatings on a regular basis. Wanyama had a few months where people went easy on him, but then he got slated too.

One of the big problems is that it is the most understood role in football. Fans like to see a player charge 30 yards and put in a booming thundering tackle, completely oblivious to the fact that a solid DM would rarely do such a thing because they wouldn't be so far out of position to have to run 30 yards, let alone have to put in a booming tackle. It's why certain players Iike Michael Brown (and for England Hargreaves over Carrick) became cult heroes despite being utterly ill disciplined and generally shit at doing the job they were meant to be doing because half the time they've chased the play up the field, made a tackle near the oppositions corner flag and then the opposition have broke into a massive hole in midfield that they vacated due to their "heroics" the fans cheered so lustily for.

Then you have the other type of DM, the one who can play a little bit and is comfortable on the ball. If those players aren't some genius deep lying playermaker then they also get slated for their lack of creativity (even though that is not what they're in the side for).

It's a very ungrateful role basically, because to do it effectively means you're a player who should hardly get noticed on the pitch at all.

 

[Thenewcat]

Him keeping the ball moving is one of his stronger points. Not sure anyone is saying he will be pinging the ball 30 40 yards.

He had a good game, not sure why people still try and beat our players for any small detail, but hay ho.

The more rational critics aren’t ‘beating him for any small detail’ though. I don’t think he’s good enough for a top 4 side which is where we need to be. That’s not a small detail, and I take no pleasure in saying it

 

[Shadydan]

The more rational critics aren’t ‘beating him for any small detail’ though. I don’t think he’s good enough for a top 4 side which is where we need to be. That’s not a small detail, and I take no pleasure in saying it

Previous manager and current manager disagree with you there I'm afraid.

 

[DiVaio]

You're missing the point. Passing is his thing right? You haven't disagreed with this or offered anything to the contrary, that was a pretty simple pass for someone who's best attribute is apparently passing. If all he can do is 10 yard passes and nothing else, then he is barely a decent squad player. That's all i'm saying.

Passing is his thing, but it doesn't mean his every pass will be accurate. You will also find same "bad" passes from Messi, De Bruyne too.

I hope that after this pass you expected him to make these pass every minute or nothing

 

[Thenewcat]

Previous manager and current manager disagree with you there I'm afraid.

Well firstly that’s fine. If only people more qualified than Poch and Mourinho commented on here it would get a little quiet wouldn’t it?

But secondly, I’m not sure that’s the case anyway. Winks has not pushed on in the last couple of seasons, and we signed GLC and Tanguy in the same window to play the same position. Both are clearly ahead of Winks in Jose’s estimation too. We then added Højbjerg who is also ahead of him as a 6. Sissoko has been preferred recently too. The fact that he is the 5th best CM we have today and gets game time doesn’t mean Jose thinks he is good enough, just that he is what we have

 

[Shadydan]

Well firstly that’s fine. If only people more qualified than Poch and Mourinho commented on here it would get a little quiet wouldn’t it?

But secondly, I’m not sure that’s the case anyway. Winks has not pushed on in the last couple of seasons, and we signed GLC and Tanguy in the same window to play the same position. Both are clearly ahead of Winks in Jose’s estimation too. We then added Højbjerg who is also ahead of him as a 6. Sissoko has been preferred recently too. The fact that he is the 5th best CM we have today and gets game time doesn’t mean Jose thinks he is good enough, just that he is what we have

That's not my point, we can all discuss matters like these which is what forums are for, but you saying he isn't good enough for a top for team it clearly incorrect as he's been kept around by Poch and Jose - that's not done by fluke, there's obviously a reason he is a perm fixture in the side and still get's a healthy number of mins.

That's not actually true, if they were clearly ahead of Winks then you wouldn't be seeing stats like this for example:

Winks 496 mins
Ndombele 423 mins
Lo Celso 299 mins
Sissoko has 430 mins

Only Hojbjerg is clearly ahead of him on 692 mins but he is obviously a mainstay of our midfield.

Tottenham Hotspur - Squad statistics

This is the compact view of club Tottenham with performance data of the competition Overall statistics of current season .

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

What I suspect is that you are guilty of doing what many others have done is that base your team selection on your ideological Spurs lineup which is obvisously without Winks and as a 5th choice which is perfectly fine but the stats show that I'm afraid just isn't the case.

 

[chrissivad]

The more rational critics aren’t ‘beating him for any small detail’ though. I don’t think he’s good enough for a top 4 side which is where we need to be. That’s not a small detail, and I take no pleasure in saying it

There is no way he is a starter, and I don't see him fitting into this team either.

 

[Thenewcat]

That's not my point, we can all discuss matters like these which is what forums are for, but you saying he isn't good enough for a top for team it clearly incorrect as he's been kept around by Poch and Jose - that's not done by fluke, there's obviously a reason he is a perm fixture in the side and still get's a healthy number of mins.

That's not actually true, if they were clearly ahead of Winks then you wouldn't be seeing stats like this for example:

Winks 496 mins
Ndombele 423 mins
Lo Celso 299 mins
Sissoko has 430 mins

Only Hojbjerg is clearly ahead of him on 692 mins but he is obviously a mainstay of our midfield.

Tottenham Hotspur - Squad statistics

This is the compact view of club Tottenham with performance data of the competition Overall statistics of current season .

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

What I suspect is that you are guilty of doing what many others have done is that base your team selection on your ideological Spurs lineup which is obvisously without Winks and as a 5th choice which is perfectly fine but the stats show that I'm afraid just isn't the case.

Surely even you know those figures do not prove what you are claiming they do right? Tanguy and Gio haven’t been fully fit. If you think Winks would be picked ahead of either for a cup final tomorrow then i honestly don’t know what to tell you. Winks is our 4th choice midfielder at best, but Sissoko has been selected ahead of him for the last 2 PL games so I think it’s pretty clear he’s 5th

 

[Shadydan]

Surely even you know those figures do not prove what you are claiming they do right? Tanguy and Gio haven’t been fully fit. If you think Winks would be picked ahead of either for a cup final tomorrow then i honestly don’t know what to tell you. Winks is our 4th choice midfielder at best, but Sissoko has been selected ahead of him for the last 2 PL games so I think it’s pretty clear he’s 5th

Point taken on Le Celso and yes he would be picked more if he was fit but Ndombele has been fit this season, he hasn't had any injuries as far as I'm aware. The point is that I posted those stats which totally disapproves your theory that Ndombele and Lo Celso and Sissoko were clearly ahead of him when clearly they are not. You theories are entirely based on what you want to happen not what is currently happening.

If you ask me though I do think eventually Mourinho wants to settle on Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and Ndombele 3 man midfield.

 

[Phomesy]

Surely even you know those figures do not prove what you are claiming they do right? Tanguy and Gio haven’t been fully fit. If you think Winks would be picked ahead of either for a cup final tomorrow then i honestly don’t know what to tell you. Winks is our 4th choice midfielder at best, but Sissoko has been selected ahead of him for the last 2 PL games so I think it’s pretty clear he’s 5th

I'm fairly sure Shady was never suggesting Winks is a better footballer than Ndombele or Lo Celso - he was just pointing out the reality that both Poch and Mourinho think he's a much better footballer than *you* do.

Being fit to play is also an important part of being a squad player btw...

 

[Thenewcat]

Point taken on Le Celso and yes he would be picked more if he was fit but Ndombele has been fit this season, he hasn't had any injuries as far as I'm aware. The point is that I posted those stats which totally disapproves your theory that Ndombele and Lo Celso and Sissoko were clearly ahead of him when clearly they are not. You theories are entirely based on what you want to happen not what is currently happening.

If you ask me though I do think eventually Mourinho wants to settle on Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and Ndombele 3 man midfield.

I don’t even know what to say. Either you are trolling or you don’t know a damn thing, I honestly don’t know which. Lo Celso has been injured. Ndombele is obviously not ready to play 2 games a week yet as every even casual spurs observer knows. They are both a mile ahead of Winks for the theoretical cup final tomorrow. If you can’t see that then let’s just move on.

 

[Thenewcat]

I'm fairly sure Shady was never suggesting Winks is a better footballer than Ndombele or Lo Celso - he was just pointing out the reality that both Poch and Mourinho think he's a much better footballer than *you* do.

Being fit to play is also an important part of being a squad player btw...

Agreed on being fit, but otherwise shady is repeatedly claiming that winks is ahead of them based on minutes which is just a reflection of him being fit. If he was just making the point you are I would agree

 

[Shadydan]

I don’t even know what to say. Either you are trolling or you don’t know a damn thing, I honestly don’t know which. Lo Celso has been injured. Ndombele is obviously not ready to play 2 games a week yet as every even casual spurs observer knows. They are both a mile ahead of Winks for the theoretical cup final tomorrow. If you can’t see that then let’s just move on.

This is funny, why are you using this theoretical cup final as an example? You totally miss the point about being picked over a selection of matches, being readily available, being fit, being receptive to what the manager wants etc...

What you're referring to is quality/abilities - I'm pretty sure you won't find one Spurs fan that will say that Winks is a better payer than the other two but football doesn't work like that, we've not playing FIFA here.

You can argue all you want but you sad yourself that he's not good enough to play in a top 4 team yet he's still here getting mins, doesn't matter what I or you say this is the reality of the situation.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

If Winks played for anyone other than Spurs, I don't think there'd be a single Spurs fan wanting us to get him. He's far from our worst player, and I'm not suggesting he needs to be gotten rid of ASAP, but I really don't get why some are so keen to pretend he's anything other than average.