Player Watch: Harry Winks

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
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The question is does anyone think hes good enough to be a starter? I personally don’t but thats my own opinion!
I agree that he's not performing well enough to be a starter. But previously in different systems he has been.
 

mdharris

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I like Winks a lot. But we need someone more dynamic and aggressive next to PEH. I do think GLC is a good potential partner. He has fight and is very competitive (I remember seeing a YouTube teammate vid where a few of the lads mentioned GLC’s the player that most hates to lose), he’s a bit of a bast*rd, and moves the ball vertically, whether by carrying it forward or passing through the lines. All of these things I’d argue Winks is lacking, and all of which we need. Winks isn’t right for our system. But he’s a good player.
 
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Dzejkob

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Just fucking LOL at some of the opinions here.

Some people need to be seriously self-reflective. Maybe ask themselves, ok, two managers who are considered two of the best managers in the world have continued to select him when other options were available. Why is that? Think about what role he's being asked to play and then ask if he's fulfilling that remit, instead of just judging him against expectations of what you think he should be doing.

Me, personally? I get it. His job is to retain possession with simple passes when the team is out of shape and allow them to get back into possession. He's generally cautious with his passing because as we saw from three or four Ndombele stinkers later on, losing the ball in that part of the pitch simply in the name of "fucking pass it forward" can leave the team seriously exposed. When he does have the opportunity to play through the lines, but he generally only does when it's a high chance that possession will be retained.

As for the game last night, he was ok. He did his job, and then when we needed a bit more impetus he was taken off. I will note, however, that after he was taken off we lost our shape and we continually got countered against when we did so. Again, a large part, but not all of it, is because we didn't have Winks in there playing simple passess to steady the midfield.

Honestly, "wah, wah, all he does is pass it sideways and backwards" is just a facile, lazy analysis. If you don't get it then look at your own understanding, not anything else.
Disagree totally. What are the other options to Winks? Sissoko. This is not an option. I also don't believe that Winks was asked to not to pass the ball to the player in good position. I don't get this retain possession thing. Like someone invented it only to justify Winks in starting lineup. We are a Premier League club with high ambitions from what I know. How can we expect for our players to "just not lose the ball and run a lot"? It's Sunday league level. It's good when he is DM, shielding defence. But he is not that, he is not good in defence. He only runs and pass as near as it's possible. We are loosing one player with him on the pitch. Winks is a player who would look average in prime Barcelona. But here he is poor. He is not someone who lift up the team, he is someone who has to be dragged.
 

RJR1949

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Jan 31, 2013
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The MOTM for Norwich this week plays in the same position as Winks but is much more effective at moving the ball forwards. Worth considering?
 

Mr Pink

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Just fucking LOL at some of the opinions here.

Some people need to be seriously self-reflective. Maybe ask themselves, ok, two managers who are considered two of the best managers in the world have continued to select him when other options were available. Why is that? Think about what role he's being asked to play and then ask if he's fulfilling that remit, instead of just judging him against expectations of what you think he should be doing.

Me, personally? I get it. His job is to retain possession with simple passes when the team is out of shape and allow them to get back into possession. He's generally cautious with his passing because as we saw from three or four Ndombele stinkers later on, losing the ball in that part of the pitch simply in the name of "fucking pass it forward" can leave the team seriously exposed. When he does have the opportunity to play through the lines, but he generally only does when it's a high chance that possession will be retained.

As for the game last night, he was ok. He did his job, and then when we needed a bit more impetus he was taken off. I will note, however, that after he was taken off we lost our shape and we continually got countered against when we did so. Again, a large part, but not all of it, is because we didn't have Winks in there playing simple passess to steady the midfield.

Honestly, "wah, wah, all he does is pass it sideways and backwards" is just a facile, lazy analysis. If you don't get it then look at your own understanding, not anything else.
I kind of agree with this but I think he's slowly becoming a less confident player over the last season or two.

I was paying special attention to him yesterday and there were times the ball got played back to him and a first time, straight forward enough pass, was on to Lucas who's in enough space to receive it, and Harry takes a touch slows it down passes back to one of the back four.

Now his remit may well be to keep possession with simple passing when there's no obvious forward pass on, I'm sure it is in fact as that's always preferable to coughing up possession.

But when there's an opportunity to play a progressive pass forward he shouldn't be ignoring it. Its sometimes quite subtle but he's definitely been doing it at times.

He's a midfielder with good natural passing ability so his job isn't just to keep possession, it's to use the ball intelligently and progressively where possible.

Obviously it's not all black and white but I can see why some are frustrated, watching yesterday I was as well.

He's enough ability to be more forward thinking than he's showing despite his 'role' in the team and its affecting us because it's such a critical area of the pitch.
 

Rosco1984

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Aug 31, 2012
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I kind of agree with this but I think he's slowly becoming a less confident player over the last season or two.

I was paying special attention to him yesterday and there were times the ball got played back to him and a first time, straight forward enough pass, was on to Lucas who's in enough space to receive it, and Harry takes a touch slows it down passes back to one of the back four.

Now his remit may well be to keep possession with simple passing when there's no obvious forward pass on, I'm sure it is in fact as that's always preferable to coughing up possession.

But when there's an opportunity to play a progressive pass forward he shouldn't be ignoring it. Its sometimes quite subtle but he's definitely been doing it at times.

He's a midfielder with good natural passing ability so his job isn't just to keep possession, it's to use the ball intelligently and progressively where possible.

Obviously it's not all black and white but I can see why some are frustrated, watching yesterday I was as well.

He's enough ability to be more forward thinking than he's showing despite his 'role' in the team and its affecting us because it's such a critical area of the pitch.

He's playing in the wrong f'ing position as the deepest midfielder you cant take risks as if it doesn't come off there is no shield between you and the back four. For some bizzare reason Hojbjerg is being asked to press like a headless chicken and just do a Sissoko impression instead of playing where we thought we signed him to play while winks sits they should be the other way round giving winks freedom to play a pass then move forward into space to receive the return and play without the feeling of one poor pass leaves our defence exposed I like Mourinho but in this system as much as I love winks and I think he has so much potential in the right position he just doesn't have a place in a team that want to concede a bit of possession and break. I think many of us would be shocked what Guardiola could get out of him if those links were true.
 

Mr Pink

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He's playing in the wrong f'ing position as the deepest midfielder you cant take risks as if it doesn't come off there is no shield between you and the back four. For some bizzare reason Hojbjerg is being asked to press like a headless chicken and just do a Sissoko impression instead of playing where we thought we signed him to play while winks sits they should be the other way round giving winks freedom to play a pass then move forward into space to receive the return and play without the feeling of one poor pass leaves our defence exposed I like Mourinho but in this system as much as I love winks and I think he has so much potential in the right position he just doesn't have a place in a team that want to concede a bit of possession and break. I think many of us would be shocked what Guardiola could get out of him if those links were true.
Wow! Your second sentence is the longest I've ever read!!! 😀
 

wrd

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He's playing in the wrong f'ing position as the deepest midfielder you cant take risks as if it doesn't come off there is no shield between you and the back four. For some bizzare reason Hojbjerg is being asked to press like a headless chicken and just do a Sissoko impression instead of playing where we thought we signed him to play while winks sits they should be the other way round giving winks freedom to play a pass then move forward into space to receive the return and play without the feeling of one poor pass leaves our defence exposed I like Mourinho but in this system as much as I love winks and I think he has so much potential in the right position he just doesn't have a place in a team that want to concede a bit of possession and break. I think many of us would be shocked what Guardiola could get out of him if those links were true.
I did notice Winks was deeper and Hojbjerg was running around like a fly to shit wherever the ball was. Was a mess, neither of them came out of it looking good. Too small a sample size to see whether it was the players being shit or whether it was at the managers instruction.
 

Rosco1984

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It’s a series of strung-together sentences that flouts all known laws of syntax. SIGH. :)
Broken full stop on my laptop they should have been there honest, (comma instead) I was just ranting and couldn't be bothered to go back and correct the ones which didn't work.
 

SCUMmucs

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Did you guys see it?! He did a long pass!
It was only one but it’s the first time I remember seeing that in I don’t know how long.
He played poor today but I hope that successful pass builds up his confidence.
 

Univarn

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Did you guys see it?! He did a long pass!
It was only one but it’s the first time I remember seeing that in I don’t know how long.
He played poor today but I hope that successful pass builds up his confidence.
He does one every few game - maybe 1 in 10 - and every time it does the round on highlight reels and twitter as everyone observes how great he is at it.... And then he doesn't do it again for a while and the status quo returns until he does it again. At a certain point we all just got to agree he is what he is. A fine all around midfielder who is an elite possession recycler and mediocre defensively who can occasionally blow up great or bad because that's what fine midfielders do.
 

Alex4487

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Jul 21, 2011
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Did you guys see it?! He did a long pass!
It was only one but it’s the first time I remember seeing that in I don’t know how long.
He played poor today but I hope that successful pass builds up his confidence.
loool really he will never live up to what we expected him to be. he aint a starter tanguy hojberg and lo celso have to be the 3 cm starters. sissoko and winks can play in the early round of cups they are back ups nothing more
 

TheHoddleWaddle

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I cant work out what's happening with winksy. I think it's the role he is playing for JM. He seems.to be ineffective, yet, when he went off against Everton our midfield became overrun, so he must he doing what he is being asked.

I was really surprised to see him come out after half time today. (same could be said for a few others though). But, you cannot argue that JM got it spot on. Tanguy was the right sub, and I think, the reason we were often overrun. Yes he makes a minty pass, but he doesnt do anything else of note. Winks, covers ground and breaks up lines of play.

Hopefully we see a little more of Winks on the ball as he grows into what JM wants and the cm's around him settle.

I think we'll see a Winks, Hojbjerg and Lo Celso CM when he plays a 3 in.future.
 

SUIYHA

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I've been a huge Harry Winks fan but quite frankly he's annoyed the hell out of me ever since the start of last season. Ndombele gets the ball and tries to turn and pass forward - Winks is only ever sideways or backwards even when there are opportunities to break. He's a good technical footballer but all I see him doing is slowing play down - fine when up against a team that presses well and can hurt us so we need to keep possession, but against a team that we need to attack the is borderline useless.

I like the kid but he shouldn't be starting for us ahead of Ndombele or Lo Celso at the moment and we should also be looking to sign another playmaker before the window closes IMO.
 

TheHoddleWaddle

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I've been a huge Harry Winks fan but quite frankly he's annoyed the hell out of me ever since the start of last season. Ndombele gets the ball and tries to turn and pass forward - Winks is only ever sideways or backwards even when there are opportunities to break. He's a good technical footballer but all I see him doing is slowing play down - fine when up against a team that presses well and can hurt us so we need to keep possession, but against a team that we need to attack the is borderline useless.

I like the kid but he shouldn't be starting for us ahead of Ndombele or Lo Celso at the moment and we should also be looking to sign another playmaker before the window closes IMO.
Trouble is, Tanguy doesnt do enough of the ground work. Look at the difference after the break. Much more assured.
 

Joely

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Jan 20, 2011
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One thing I am enjoying about this window so far is we are seemingly looking to relegate squad players who've become first team starters back to being squad players. Likes of Davies, Aurier, and Moura positions will go to new signings and hopefully we can sign a quality CB that'll send Dier back to being a squad player.

If we were to bring in a 'quarterback' type midfielder that Herc mentioned we may consider if the right deal comes up, think Winks will find himself in that same situation time and rightly so IMO.
 
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