New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Lilbaz]

I'm referring to the High Road West scheme and the agreement with Lendlease and the amount of affordable housing. They're trying to undo Lendlease already and I think we still need planning permission on phase 3

Not as far as i'm aware. Phase 3 was past with the stadium. We've already started on the tottenham experience and foundations.

 

[purple8]

Yes but not part of the ndp.

Yeah sorry, I meant it does affect us, in that its our fancy "Wembley Way" from the station.

 

[absolute bobbins]

This potentially fucks our development plans doesn't it?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ouncil-hdv-scheme_uk_5a67625be4b0e5630073f84d

Doesn't all this seem a little communist? The party is apparently more important than the locally elected officials who are doing what they believe is in the best interests of their constituents.

 

[longtimespur]

We'll keep the red flag flying. is their anthem I think.

 

[Lilbaz]

Doesn't all this seem a little communist? The party is apparently more important than the locally elected officials who are doing what they believe is in the best for their constituents.

Tbh why should landlease get part ownership? Let the council develop the land.
Selling off land and these private partnership deals are shortsighted and costing this country £billions.

 

[Hugh DeMann]

Tbh why should landlease get part ownership? Let the council develop the land.
Selling off land and these private partnership deals are shortsighted and costing this country £billions.

And how are the Council going to pay for the development? Partnerships are currently the only way LA's can help develop their areas through large regen schemes.

If Haringey took on all the financial risk and it went wrong then its services that get affected. In the development industry these partnerships can work well but they need proper oversight and planning at the beginning.

 

[Lilbaz]

We'll keep the red flag flying. is their anthem I think.

Do you think there was nothing wrong with giving the os over to a private company for a token rent?

 

[absolute bobbins]

Tbh why should landlease get part ownership? Let the council develop the land.
Selling off land and these private partnership deals are shortsighted and costing this country £billions.

I would assume it's because the council can't afford to develop the area on their own.

 

[Lilbaz]

And how are the Council going to pay for the development? Partnerships are currently the only way LA's can help develop their areas through large regen schemes.

If Haringey took on all the financial risk and it went wrong then its services that get affected. In the development industry these partnerships can work well but they need proper oversight and planning at the beginning.

Maybe through this?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....orrow-to-invest-in-new-homes-says-sajid-javid

 

[Lilbaz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42724939

 

[longtimespur]

Do you think there was nothing wrong with giving the os over to a private company for a token rent?

What's that got to do with Communists and The Red Flag Flying anthem?

 

[Hugh DeMann]

Maybe through this?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....orrow-to-invest-in-new-homes-says-sajid-javid

Homes England (formerly HCA) is the development arm of the government and will be spearheading this as before.

This is a central gov body. I agree that local authorities should be given the tools to develop things their areas need but a range of factors including lack of expertise and local government rules makes it harder.

No doubt that more affordable homes are needed. The current system is set up so that private developers have the most responsibilty which is not right.

 

[Speedy]

You have to ask what the fuck has it got to do with the NEC of the Labour party.
This is classic Corbyn type socialist behaviour, fuck the really important stuff lets poke our fingers into everything that isn't our business, would they do this if Haringey council was Conservative? No because they have no control over a Conservative council but they are damn well going to exert control over Labour ones, it's all about central control, the central politbureau knows best and will be obeyed even at the expense of local democracy.
Wellcome to the future under a Corbyn/MacDonnell government.

We did all this a few pages back. Labour is definitely going to address the problem of private companies rinsing local councils, with Carillion leading the way since we last discussed this, and Lendlease need stopping in their tracks so unfortunately for us, political solutions to the enormous housing affordability issue will naturally occur.

It is 100% their business. And it won’t stop the stadium at all, just protect people’s homes.

 

[worcestersauce]

We did all this a few pages back. Labour is definitely going to address the problem of private companies rinsing local councils, with Carillion leading the way since we last discussed this, and Lendlease need stopping in their tracks so unfortunately for us, political solutions to the enormous housing affordability issue will naturally occur.

It is 100% their business. And it won’t stop the stadium at all, just protect people’s homes.

Nonsense, I know jeremy Corbyn and his motley crew and this is about central control and blocking any and everything they don't believe in whether it is better for the local community or not. As the official opposition they are 100% entitled to argue against whatever the government does that it feels is against the good of the country but as the official opposition if is not their business to oversee and try to take control of everything a Labour council does, that is not their job, do you believe that every decision made by a Labour council should be run by the NEC? Of course they shouildn't, it's bloody disgraceful but it is absolutely what I expect from Central Committee.

 

[Speedy]

Nonsense, I know jeremy Corbyn and his motley crew and this is about central control and blocking any and everything they don't believe in whether it is better for the local community or not. As the official opposition they are 100% entitled to argue against whatever the government does that it feels is against the good of the country but as the official opposition if is not their business to oversee and try to take control of everything a Labour council does, that is not their job, do you believe that every decision made by a Labour council should be run by the NEC? Of course they shouildn't, it's bloody disgraceful but it is absolutely what I expect from Central Committee.

Please don’t call it nonsense. I’m just explaining how I see it, and I see housing as a very real problem which needs dealing with at a local level. Hey presto that’s what’s happening. Now I happen to agree it could be the thin end of the wedge, we could be treading a dangerous path to Communism. But honestly private housing in this country is a disgrace and if Labour are making it their central issue, because it’s what the public want, then that is grass roots democracy. Carillion is not the future - they have well and truly fucked the pooch with the £200bn still getting paid despite the company going bust. Lendlease is not the future either. So what will happen is, local councils will make a pigs ear of it, and a better way forward will emerge.

 

[sherbornespurs]

You have to ask what the fuck has it got to do with the NEC of the Labour party.
This is classic Corbyn type socialist behaviour, fuck the really important stuff lets poke our fingers into everything that isn't our business, would they do this if Haringey council was Conservative? No because they have no control over a Conservative council but they are damn well going to exert control over Labour ones, it's all about central control, the central politburo knows best and will be obeyed even at the expense of local democracy.
Welcome to the future under a Corbyn/MacDonnell government.

It's nothing to do with 'exerting control' - it's simply a request from Labour to 'pause' the HDV, a request that has support from the local sitting MP David Lammy and also the local cross-party coalition.

And it's not just a Labour thing. Haringey Liberal Democrats are opposed to the HDV in its current form, as is Haringey Green Party - it's a Green Party candidate that applied for the Judicial Review against the HDV that's now before the High Court.

Locally, most of the people who are unhappy and active against the HDV are members of no political party. Many of them are business owners and residents of the estates and houses targeted for demolition and social cleansing, yet there's not a single Haringey councillor who voted for the HDV who actually lives in a property planned for demolition.

The common thread amongst both political groupings and individuals is to oppose social injustice, and as it stands the current plan is for large-scale social cleansing similar to those that have happened elsewhere in London, displacing poorer families, white, black, elderly and ethnic minorities. Terms like "estate renewal" and "mixed communities" disguise the real purpose of a large, off-shore global corporation grabbing public assets - land and buildings. Residents are just collateral damage.

There has been much water under the bridge this past year, that is before Grenfell Tower and the ongoing debate regarding community and social housing, and more recently the collapse of the public/private finance initiative involving Carrilion. It's no surprise that a development on this scale is now under the microscope and exposed to further scrutiny - as it should.

 

[Saoirse]

Let's be realistic here. How many people here could name the local councillor they last voted for? The vast majority voting in Haringey elsewhere don't have a clue who their local candidate is or what they believe in. They vote for the party because they generally agree with their values. If Labour wants to push Labour councillors, elected by Labour voters, in a certain direction then they have every right to do so.

 

[worcestersauce]

Please don’t call it nonsense. I’m just explaining how I see it, and I see housing as a very real problem which needs dealing with at a local level. Hey presto that’s what’s happening. Now I happen to agree it could be the thin end of the wedge, we could be treading a dangerous path to Communism. But honestly private housing in this country is a disgrace and if Labour are making it their central issue, because it’s what the public want, then that is grass roots democracy. Carillion is not the future - they have well and truly fucked the pooch with the £200bn still getting paid despite the company going bust. Lendlease is not the future either. So what will happen is, local councils will make a pigs ear of it, and a better way forward will emerge.

I apologise, I shouldn't have said that.
I guess you can see that I get angry when I read things like that and honestly believe they don't care what local communities want they only care what they want for local communities but you are entitled to disagree with me.
I agree with you that housing is a massive problem in this country, when Margaret Thatcher stopped building 250,000 council homes in the early eighties nobody else built 250,000 houses so we've been that much down every year since, she escalated the sale of council homes supposedly to bring about a nation of freeholders but actually laid the foundations of a renter nation and a landlords paradise and nobody has addressed that since so I share your concerns.
I don't claim any superior knowledge of insight about Carillion but I have been told for nearly a year that some big infrastucture engineering companies are flirting with financial danger and this was bound to happen, it's probably not going to be the only one, I hope it is but it wouldn't surprise me if there were others.

 

[worcestersauce]

It's nothing to do with 'exerting control' - it's simply a request from Labour to 'pause' the HDV, a request that has support from the local sitting MP David Lammy and also the local cross-party coalition.

And it's not just a Labour thing. Haringey Liberal Democrats are opposed to the HDV in its current form, as is Haringey Green Party - it's a Green Party candidate that applied for the Judicial Review against the HDV that's now before the High Court.

Locally, most of the people who are unhappy and active against the HDV are members of no political party. Many of them are business owners and residents of the estates and houses targeted for demolition and social cleansing, yet there's not a single Haringey councillor who voted for the HDV who actually lives in a property planned for demolition.

The common thread amongst both political groupings and individuals is to oppose social injustice, and as it stands the current plan is for large-scale social cleansing similar to those that have happened elsewhere in London, displacing poorer families, white, black, elderly and ethnic minorities. Terms like "estate renewal" and "mixed communities" disguise the real purpose of a large, off-shore global corporation grabbing public assets - land and buildings. Residents are just collateral damage.

There has been much water under the bridge this past year, that is before Grenfell Tower and the ongoing debate regarding community and social housing, and more recently the collapse of the public/private finance initiative involving Carrilion. It's no surprise that a development on this scale is now under the microscope and exposed to further scrutiny - as it should.

The residents that voted pretty much unanimously for it? Still as you say, their opinion doesn't really count.

Edit: Davidmatsdorf, you can't disagree with me, the residents did vote almost unanimously for demolition, you can dislike that fact but not disagree with it.

Edit2: That's better.

 

[worcestersauce]

Let's be realistic here. How many people here could name the local councillor they last voted for? The vast majority voting in Haringey elsewhere don't have a clue who their local candidate is or what they believe in. They vote for the party because they generally agree with their values. If Labour wants to push Labour councillors, elected by Labour voters, in a certain direction then they have every right to do so.

No they don't. Read what you have written, what you have written is that local councilors shouldn't exist, there should only be central control presumably with people centrally appointed.
What you are arguing is the end of local democracy by local people for local people.

This has probably taken a detour away from the stadium thread so I'm going to leave it there saddened at peoples attitude to local government but I'll not take issue with any more off topic posts.