Jose Mourinho

[THOWIG]

Do u watch every minute of every one of their games?

What you're doing is comparing Everton's highlights reel, to Spurs' warts n all, behind the scenes outtakes.
As I said, if he'd been here 12/18 months, your moaning might be valid.

He's done a cracking job within a shorter time frame albeit by a month or so. They play simplified tactics and look positive all round with some promising young players.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I choose to vent my frustrations more on Twitter and the ones who know me on there from here will vouch that I was against this negative toxic has been twat the moment he was linked with us last October. Sadly too many got seduced by his charm offensive where common sense tells you his style of football will never change.

He's only been here a few months and has already lowered expectations. Suck it up as it's only going to get worse under this dinosaur and lets not forget plenty wanted this mug in.....

Okay on the twitter thing.

I haven't been seduced by anything. I've disliked him when he has managed our rivals, he was only really charming the very first time he stepped into English football. He is more pragmatic than anything else now, which some people prefer, I think it's good he is straight forward and hope he remains that way when it comes to deal with Levy - on that point we'll have to see.

On the 'lowering expectations' thing - what expectations? We started the season like we ended last season, he took over and we won some games. My own personal expectation at Christmas was this season was done for - I got sucked back in prior to both Kane and Sonny going down and since then (Sonny going down) we're four losses on the bounce. This thread may have had people questioning his tactics during the period prior to that, but my expectations were dwindling by the game. Now four on the bounce (losses) and everyone is in here telling everyone how they knew this was going to turn out and etc etc etc ....

Tell me about the poor displays, tell me about the phases in games where we look devoid of ideas (far more apparent in the last four) tell me about the decisions that have probably crossed every fans mind and I'll agree. I won't agree with hyperbole about my clubs manager. I will say this - I reckon had this been in the time of Graham the feeling could (would) well have been the same, fingers crossed it's better than that (league cup besides)

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Just on Ancelotti - you do realise he has similar ideals to Jose, when it comes to transitions from front to back?

While they got opened up time and again by Arsenal, the priority was to get the ball wide quickly and then break to take advantages of the overlap depending on what side of the pitch the ball was played too ...

Bit like when Jose first took over - attacking football but wide open at the back - bit like Wolves last weekend.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

I think it's more than Injuries that have curtailed jose. I think the squad were fatigued as f@#*. I don't think poch had long term methodology in training players so hard. I believe the reason they are slow and sluggish is inappropriate training methods by the 'god' poch. Yes that was sarcasm.

Lots of revisionism here. If the truth be told the football in Pochs first season was shit. Proper shit. No bones, it was shit.

It took poch 2 seasons to be playing the football we all liked. But it only lasted 2 seasons. Afterward we were going backward. The players didn't like him and had given up playing for him. Including and especially kane.

In his whole time poch never installed a winning mentality. We were the nearly men.

Jose inherited a weary, fatigued, maybe even mentally depressed squad, with no solidity mentally, I'd say actuly weak.

Poch was lucky to get to the final of champions league. We were lucky to even get out of the group.

Give the man a chance. Maybe he's playing defensive because the players can't cope with insense football. Against wolves first 20 was the best I've seen us in a while. I can see improvement maybe some choose not to.

Poch never had these problems to start with and let's take wolves for example, they smashed us up properly with Pochs best team. Maybe you don't remember you we seemed to always struggle against them.

Poch won nothing. Nothing. Hasn't up till now. Maybe he never will. Jose is paid the big bucks because he has earned it. Negative football? Winning the league with record goals.. And some poster referenced this as par for the course? Seriously???? He ended barcas domination in the league. This was 'best team in the world' barca. Not barca of today. Jose fucks up clubs does he. What happened when he left Madrid. They won 4 champions leagues, 3 on the bounce. Yes a right royal fuck up.

Poch deserved the sack. Yes he did. Move on. His high press game was found out long ago. I liked him very much but he wasn't anything other than a nearly man. Venables had us playing some serious ball, so did Harry, do we remember them the same way? We've been on an upward trajectory ever since the arneson and jol era. Steadily improving. Poch just took his turn in this trajectory. Let's remember that too. We were a lasagne away from finishing 4th with jol. We should of even finished 2nd with Harry. But we were there or thereabouts for years before poch came.

Jose deserves some respect from us. We've never had a manager like him before. He is proven beyond anything we have seen before. Jose has won more in his career than the whole history of our club. But what we know better? He's shit? You lot need to wake the fuck up.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

100 percent agree. Having no strikers doesn't mean you concede the amount of goals we have or the fact that we're playing with zero structure.

Equally, losing your only world class player and your second goal threat at the same time will have ripple effects throughout more than just “only strikers are injured”

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Last thing from me, so if we were to sack Mourinho who would we bring in? I’ve seen Howe, Huffenthal mentioned which is absolutely embarrassing from the people who stated that.

What miracle worker is currently available out there who can change us right now?

Bielsa would be a good shout.

 

[THOWIG]

Equally, losing your only world class player and your second goal threat at the same time will have ripple effects throughout more than just “only strikers are injured”

Of course it would have an effect, but doesn't excuse what we've seen so far.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Bielsa would be a good shout.

No no. No from me. Pochs mentor who is also a failure in trophy terms and another that breaks players. Absolute last manager I would want.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

No no. No from me. Pochs mentor who is also a failure in trophy terms and another that breaks players. Absolute last manager I would want.

Naglesmann?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Of course it would have an effect, but doesn't excuse what we've seen so far.

It does not completely remove all responsibility, but it is enough of a reason to argue benefit of doubt.
Star player and central attacker both out -> same workload to be divided on fewer players and some suboptimal adaptions -> a tired squad already adjusting to changes getting more tired and having to adjust again to changes -> leads to some shit footie. The fact that they "only are strikers" is an arbitrary point in this context.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Naglesmann?

I'm happy with how things are going so far with Jose. But he has potential naglesmann yes. Do I want him now? Not really.

 

[Danny1]

Bielsa would be a good shout.

I know a couple of Leeds fans who would disagree. Dirty Leeds bastards!

 

[topper]

No no. No from me. Pochs mentor who is also a failure in trophy terms and another that breaks players. Absolute last manager I would want.

Isn’t he also Pep’s mentor?

 

[mpickard2087]

Lots of revisionism here. If the truth be told the football in Pochs first season was shit. Proper shit. No bones, it was shit.

That's revisionism in itself though, it has to be said. We were inconsistent that year, but partly because Poch initially gave senior players a chance and they tried their best to fuck him over not buying into tactics or training methods. When he just said fuck it, and effectively started from scratch with the likes of Kane, Mason, Bentaleb etc. we still weren't the finished article but you saw glimpses, we started pressing hard etc. and showed 10 times the fight we were accustomed to from any Spurs' teams, and the side was morphing into a team in his image and progressing. And that Arsenal game at WHL where we battered the absolute fuck out of them and eventually turned the game around is still probably what I consider the best performance I saw from us under Poch in terms of energy, aggression, and high press working perfectly.

Anyway, back to Mourinho.....

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Isn’t he also Pep’s mentor?

I believe Guardiola himself ranks Juanma Lillo, Johan Cruyff as more important to his development as manager. I'm splitting hairs here maybe, but if your point was that Bielsa is good because he mentored Guardiola, that's not the entire picture.

 

[mill]

I believe Guardiola himself ranks Juanma Lillo, Johan Cruyff as more important to his development as manager. I'm splitting hairs here maybe, but if your point was that Bielsa is good because he mentored Guardiola, that's not the entire picture.

Yeah I don’t think Bielsa was peps mentor as such but I did read a story about him going to stay with bielsa before taking the Barca job to discuss ideas get advice etc

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Yeah I don’t think Bielsa was peps mentor as such but I did read a story about him going to stay with bielsa before taking the Barca job to discuss ideas get advice etc

Yeah it gets complex but I think conclusion is we probably don't have a big reason now to talk about Bielsa replacing Mourinho. Call me a radical thinker, but that's my view.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Weren't u saying the other day he needs time?
You keep flip flopping.

And why are you so sure u were wrong after only 4 months? It doesn't make any sense.

Hey mate, it’s just to cover all bases kidding....

So I have been flip flopping a little because I’m an optimist but also a realist.
1. When he was appointed I was behind it as I thought he could be the man to finally win us something regardless of style and id be ok with that

2. Early on we played ok and results were good but I was concerned we were getting a bit lucky in games. Then we got Kane and Son injured fair enough that has a big impact, but the performances started to become more and more like the Jose at end of Man.Utd reign where the team would drop very deep straight away and surrender possession and this trend continued in many games even against lesser opposition.
Added to this Jose was outsmarted by Solskjaer and Fat Frank twice, Saints and Wolves and we got utterly dominated by Leipzig - the frustration was growing but I was trying to cling onto the positives and the reality of the situation that he’s only been here a few months and the squad needs some work.

3. We put in a good display against Wolves which was much more positive so I saw a light of hope BUT then last night we just reverted back to type again at home to bottom of the league and surprise surprise we lost again. Added to this over the last few weeks especially Jose has gone from being positive and upbeat in press conferences to starting to more and more play the pity card and to be honest it’s getting boring and draining. Yes we have some injuries and yes some players are tired but you cannot tell me that Norwich had a better starting XI than us, probably only Krul and Cantrell from last nights team would get in our team yet we approached the game as if we were at home to Barcelona, it was yet again hard to watch, frankly embarrassing and most importantly it was in effective.

So yes whilst I understand he’s not been in the job long and has had injuries to deal with I think there are many many red flags developing and I’ve watched Football long enough to know the likely outcome. I think Levy took a gamble and it’s not paid off as Jose is just not the right fit for our club. Added to that the board must take some real responsibility for the state of the squad however if you asked me now a choice between backing Jose in the summer with a chance of an upturn in results but only a very slim chance of a change to more positive tactics, compared to cutting our losses and getting in a more positive younger progressive coach who would suit our current players and club much better where there would arguably be a similar chance of improved results and a much higher chance of a new manager serving up some energetic pressing entertaining possession football then I’d be much more inclined to go for the latter.

Ultimately under Levy I can’t see us really winning much so I’d rather we played some enjoyable football and had a go again than having to watch this anti football for another 18 months until it all goes really sour as it always does with Jose. I find it hard to admit but I think i was wrong about Jose and those who said the game has passed him by and moved on are correct.

Fill ya boots.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Isn’t he also Pep’s mentor?

No he is an inspiration moreso than mentor. Pep acknowledges him as an inspiration and states clearly that he developed a brand of play that changed the way football went. But pep doest base his sides on Bielsa play.

 

[TorontoYid]

I think our progress is once again come down to Levy and whether or not he will be serious in the transfer market and strengthen the team. I have little doubt Poch would have won trophies (probably the CL final against Liverpool) if we had bought the players he wanted and Jose will be no different. He can only work with what he has and it is a very good team but seriously lacking in depth with no real rotation options. Jose will win trophies if he is given a real budget and we actually get the players.