General Youth Football

[Sweech]

i agree but for a player with his reputation, senior experience and mammoth transfer fee you would expect him to standout regardless. imagine me saying at the time that he's not a better player right now than kwp, onomah or some other fringe premier league player, i'd have been laughed off the forum. you only have to look at when we signed him people were expecting a player who can make an impact right away or at least in the not too distant future, which is a reasonable view to have given how much he cost. the truth is though he has looked just as lost and ineffective playing for england's u21s as he has with us. if he's struggling at that level then on what basis can he help the first team any time soon?

obviously we signed sessegnon mostly with the long-term in mind so if he's not making much impact right now then that's not a big issue but i'm not convinced he has this massive untapped potential just waiting to be unlocked either. we let edwards go for a bag of skittles and for my money he has far more to his game than sessegnon, at least as an attacking player.

Personal opinion but I don’t super rate international appearances for judging players.

Neither at youth level or men’s level.

I often find there’s little correlation to international success and club success. Too many flashes in the pan on the international stage or players who are amazing at the club and can’t do it internationally.

 

[IGSpur]

Personal opinion but I don’t super rate international appearances for judging players.

Neither at youth level or men’s level.

I often find there’s little correlation to international success and club success. Too many flashes in the pan on the international stage or players who are amazing at the club and can’t do it internationally.

I think it's a balance. I've always seen it as an opportunity to see how players fair when they are on an even footing, and get a sense of where everyone is at developmentally.

I find international youth football a fairly good indicator of where other players stand, and it generally plays out. Granted I'm going from memory, but if a player is playing first team football at one club and then plays youth international football and other players are outperforming them, 9 times out 10 I find when they get their chance in the first team they will continue to do at least as well or out perform the initial player. This is also because the players in youth football are the best of the best.

I think this applies until the u21s and then men's football. At which point I more agree with you that it is a lot harder to assess. Because the players in those teams, may no longer be the best players around, and not reflect club football. If that didn't make sense, I'd liken it to Kane playing with England and being called rubbish as the players previously at England's disposal was not comparable to the ones at Spurs. Similarly when everyone called Abraham rubbish at u21s Euros the same way they called Kane rubbish as he got no service.

Also and probably more importantly, management at the u21 level and above isn't comparable to club management as they spend less time with the players and so there's less gelling.

This isn't as much of a problem at the younger levels, where the players know each other better for one, and I find management have less of an impact as it's less tactical.

 

[edson]

Fabio Silva is the player I am most looking forward to watching at Wolves and if he can cope with our football then he can be a top player.

He is such a clever player who can score goals and setup chances for other players, he destroyed us in the UEFA Youth League in 2019 and yes it is a lot of money but if he can deliver he will be some player at some point down the line.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Anyone got any thoughts about Eddie Nketiah? Never really thought that much of him when I'd seen him play, but certainly banging them in for England U21s at the moment.

 

[Yid-ol]

Anyone got any thoughts about Eddie Nketiah? Never really thought that much of him when I'd seen him play, but certainly banging them in for England U21s at the moment.

Plays for arsenal doesn't he? I expect we won't be able to get him cheap if we did want him!!

 

[edson]

Anyone got any thoughts about Eddie Nketiah? Never really thought that much of him when I'd seen him play, but certainly banging them in for England U21s at the moment.

His goal last night was a very good goal and it was all down to him, he robbed the defender of the ball and then ran onto goal and dinked the ball over the on rushing keeper very good finish.

He disappeared a lot in the second half and I think he gets a bit lazy or switches off in games but he is a goalscorer but it is off the ball he will need to improve on.

Skipp had a solid game with a lot of hard work as always from him and he was replaced around about 80min.

Sessegnon had a bit of a shocker and could not get into the game and was replaced around 67min, he was playing as a attacker but apart from the odd good touch he just was never in the game that much.

I watched him play years before we pulled the trigger on him and for me he cannot play LB because he does not think like a defender and watching him trying to defend last night from a attacking position he keeps getting wrong side of his man and trying to win the ball from the wrong side which leads to him giving away free-kicks.

I like Sess but he still has a long way to go but he is a player that will always will score goals, but for me he does not think like a defender because he always wants to get forward and score goals, think he is going to be a playing that will get better in a few years from now but I do not see him as a defender as he is now.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Sessegnon had a bit of a shocker and could not get into the game and was replaced around 67min, he was playing as a attacker but apart from the odd good touch he just was never in the game that much.

I watched him play years before we pulled the trigger on him and for me he cannot play LB because he does not think like a defender and watching him trying to defend last night from a attacking position he keeps getting wrong side of his man and trying to win the ball from the wrong side which leads to him giving away free-kicks.

I like Sess but he still has a long way to go but he is a player that will always will score goals, but for me he does not think like a defender because he always wants to get forward and score goals, think he is going to be a playing that will get better in a few years from now but I do not see him as a defender as he is now.

doesn't think like a defender but doesn't really have the skill set to make it as an elite wide attacker either ... quite the conundrum for a player we've invested heavily in. when i saw the line up yesterday, flashscores had him playing as a striker(but obviously they were wrong) and that's something i'd be interested to see. he's always had good composure, timing and finishing - his goal the other night was so instinctive and of really high quality.

 

[edson]

doesn't think like a defender but doesn't really have the skill set to make it as an elite wide attacker either ... quite the conundrum for a player we've invested heavily in. when i saw the line up yesterday, flashscores had him playing as a striker(but obviously they were wrong) and that's something i'd be interested to see. he's always had good composure, timing and finishing - his goal the other night was so instinctive and of really high quality.

Agree in the box he thinks like a striker and the amount of times you will see him in the right place at the right time even if the ball does not come to him, I like that he is always coming in at the back post and he gets a lot of joy from doing this, getting on the end of things and scoring goals is a strong point of his game.

I watched most of the game yesterday and he was playing more as a LWF but he had long spells in the game when he was just not in the game and it was obvious he was going to be the first player we changed in the second half but LWF could be a option for him maybe.

Like you I have never been sure what his best position is, I would like to see him go out on loan but do not think this would happen because he does cover a lot of positions.

 

[IGSpur]

Anyone got any thoughts about Eddie Nketiah? Never really thought that much of him when I'd seen him play, but certainly banging them in for England U21s at the moment.

Excellent striker. Incredibly clinical and clever. I really like him and his goal record at academy football is ridiculous. I didn't even realise he recently became England's highest goal scorer at youth internationals, and he hasn't even been playing that match. I say I didn't realise because again he's someone that doesn't really catch the eye or steal headlines but just bags through being efficient. Arsenal are really lucky. Speaking to some Arsenal mates (I know) he apparently doesn't really seem to fit in with their team, so I'm not sure what's going on and him being clinical doesn't necessarily translate to adult football. He's one of my favourite youth strikers after Abraham who seems to have settled better at top level football and like Nketiah was a relatively late bloomer.

 

[IGSpur]

I actually came back into this thread to say Yunus Musah ex Arsenal appears to have started really well at Valencia. Another player I like, I think he's more of a CM/CAM but they have him playing on the wing, and he seems to be making an impact. The Arsenal year group from 99s-02s have really been putting out players. Like us they've lost a few and some of their better ones haven even made an impact with them, through injury and other reasons.

But going back to Musah, that 02 age group is really mad and it's a shame they never even managed to qualify for the u17 Euro as they missed so many of their dual nationals.

They have a lot abroad aswell apparently doing well.

Bondswell (RB Leipzig), Musah(Valencia), Madueke (PSV), Sarmiento (Benfica), Cirkin, McAtee, Carvalho, Walcott, Livaremento, Harwood-Bellis, Mighten, Rogers, Knight, Gelhardt, Greenwood, Cole.

A lot of players who were talented but lost way via injuries that have plenty of time, and a lot of genuine ability in there. Let's say half of those establish themselves, again that will incredible for England.

I think England are still weakest at CB/CM/CAM and our depth at LB aint great. So if Cirkin and Bondswell come through those are good options at LB.

Then fortunately Musah and Madueke are abroad and can play (CM/CAM) which will instantly make us more competitive if they enjoy good seasons at their respective clubs

Also pleased to see Curtis Jones (01) come on for Liverpool. Hopefully he gets serious minutes, if so England will be looking dangerous

 

[IGSpur]

Watching Bellingham and he's playing well on his debut, and scored. Serious player. As I said in another thread the u21 partnership of him and Skipp would be quality for the future

 

[edson]

 

[IGSpur]

Seen this. 3 assists and his 2nd is what he's about. There's so much to keep an eye on this season, with the top players abroad. I said Gomes is like Edwards they would struggle to come through in this country due to their size and style of play. Great leagues for them to re-find their spark.

Jamal Musiala also scored on his Bayern debut I believe at 17. Bellingham has another assist for Dortmund. This two are the same England age group, and that age group arguably aren't as good as the 00s and it took so long for the 00s really to get chance which only really transpired when Sancho made the big step to go abroad. I think it was the first time a big talent moved abroad permanently to get minutes.

Since then he has inspired so many others. I think so many of our players(Spurs and England) should have taken that route earlier and if they did they would be in a lot better position, but they took the more comfortable assurance of staying at their parent club, and just trusting the manager rather than reading the room. I'm thinking Edwards, Onomah etc. I've seen a few people say, that you can't just send them all abroad and expect them to work because of what is happening, but I 100% believe the BEST of the best going abroad earlier would have them players in different places, compared to where they are now.

It is so frustrating for the sake of England, as it wouldn't have made a difference with us, that TOB, Kirby, Edwards didn't take that chance as who knows where they would be now. These guys were the top players of their age groups, two of them the golden generation. TOB I imagine would be a Thiago type player somewhere I can imagine. The talent and Englands disposal would be crazier than it is now.

You see Madueke has a goal on his PSG debut and Musah also starting well and of course Sancho, it is so surreal to see but also a case of what could have been. Weird feeling seeing so many English players not only abroad but in the first team and doing well, when they might have just been in the u23s in the past or on some Championship loan. Edwards is now finding his feet, but and all is not lost but it is gutting to see how much of our top players have wasted away.

We've seen what Sancho can do, but two 02 players and two 03 players are now looking to show that getting out early really is the way forward. Granted Bellingham's situation was slightly different.

It is crazy to think how the 02 age group didn't even qualify for their Euros, due to the double nationality stuff, but there you go.

Another player gone abroad is Sam Iling Jr, which means Chelsea have lost two 03 players and he is at Juventus so will be worth keeping an eye on him though he'll need to settle in properly, and of course Gomes is being given a new lease of life with Edwards. Very exciting atm and just proving what I've been saying, if these players at the Big English clubs, came through weaker leagues or abroad they would in the first team a lot sooner, even if they were at Big clubs in those leagues. They have more respect for youngsters and less politics I think when it comes to giving them chances. If you are good enough you WILL play over there it seems.

This post was inspired after seeing @JRSG , fairly sure it's him put these pics together.

 

[edson]

Seen this. 3 assists and his 2nd is what he's about. There's so much to keep an eye on this season, with the top players abroad. I said Gomes is like Edwards they would struggle to come through in this country due to their size and style of play. Great leagues for them to re-find their spark.

Jamal Musiala also scored on his Bayern debut I believe at 17. Bellingham has another assist for Dortmund. This two are the same England age group, and that age group arguably aren't as good as the 00s and it took so long for the 00s really to get chance which only really transpired when Sancho made the big step to go abroad. I think it was the first time a big talent moved abroad permanently to get minutes.

Since then he has inspired so many others. I think so many of our players(Spurs and England) should have taken that route earlier and if they did they would be in a lot better position, but they took the more comfortable assurance of staying at their parent club, and just trusting the manager rather than reading the room. I'm thinking Edwards, Onomah etc. I've seen a few people say, that you can't just send them all abroad and expect them to work because of what is happening, but I 100% believe the BEST of the best going abroad earlier would have them players in different places, compared to where they are now.

It is so frustrating for the sake of England, as it wouldn't have made a difference with us, that TOB, Kirby, Edwards didn't take that chance as who knows where they would be now. These guys were the top players of their age groups, two of them the golden generation. TOB I imagine would be a Thiago type player somewhere I can imagine. The talent and Englands disposal would be crazier than it is now.

You see Madueke has a goal on his PSG debut and Musah also starting well and of course Sancho, it is so surreal to see but also a case of what could have been. Weird feeling seeing so many English players not only abroad but in the first team and doing well, when they might have just been in the u23s in the past or on some Championship loan. Edwards is now finding his feet, but and all is not lost but it is gutting to see how much of our top players have wasted away.

We've seen what Sancho can do, but two 02 players and two 03 players are now looking to show that getting out early really is the way forward. Granted Bellingham's situation was slightly different.

It is crazy to think how the 02 age group didn't even qualify for their Euros, due to the double nationality stuff, but there you go.

Another player gone abroad is Sam Iling Jr, which means Chelsea have lost two 03 players and he is at Juventus so will be worth keeping an eye on him though he'll need to settle in properly, and of course Gomes is being given a new lease of life with Edwards. Very exciting atm and just proving what I've been saying, if these players at the Big English clubs, came through weaker leagues or abroad they would in the first team a lot sooner, even if they were at Big clubs in those leagues. They have more respect for youngsters and less politics I think when it comes to giving them chances. If you are good enough you WILL play over there it seems.

This post was inspired after seeing @JRSG , fairly sure it's him put these pics together.

Never watched much of him but Danny Loader is playing for Porto B, watched the Edwards match on Friday and he picked up a painful knock early in the match that he struggled with for most of the game before he was replaced, he did have one good run with a shot over the bar.

 

[IGSpur]

Never watched much of him but Danny Loader is playing for Porto B, watched the Edwards match on Friday and he picked up a painful knock early in the match that he struggled with for most of the game before he was replaced, he did have one good run with a shot over the bar.

Ye I had heard. I didn't mention him as I was talking about the main leagues but I think he also scored this weekend. I saw him play a lot for the youth sides and he had a decent amount of skill considering his size and he was physically strong. Thought he;d do alright at Reading, not sure if he had injuries or just didn't get a chance or he got chances and didn't perform but glad he's taken the steps to get going again.

Also I read something interesting whcih demonstrates the state of English football, depsite the recent improvements, and again something I've been going on about.

Two 17 year olds from England scored in the Bundesliga this season. For the two biggest clubs. If they were here people would say 'we're challenging for so and so, hence chances aren't easy to come by' or 'our players are at a 9 they need to be at least that or over to get a chance' etc. What are the chances that two 18 year olds, let alone 17 year olds born in England score in the Premier League this season, despite having so many more to choose from. Greenwood turns 19 soon, so we'd be relying on fortune to see that happens. How has development gotten to this stage? The only two good 17 year olds out there have already scored, and I can list loads of talented ones still here, and they've be lucky to get a sniff in the Prem. Nile John who is in their age group, harsh comparison as he has been injured, but even if he hadn't he would be NOWHERE near the first team here. Are we better than Dortmund or Bayern???

Also sidenote what's really weird about Dortmund is they have Sancho, Bellingham, Reyna and Haaland who were all born in England and at one point qualified for us. Imagine if they had all stayed with us haha.

 

[Blake Griffin]

it's kind of weird when you see players come through who you've watched play in u18 games in front of 50 people. like tariq lamptey for example getting lots of [well deserved] praise for his recent performances, kind of makes me feel a bit itk having watched these players from a young age where all but a very small minority wouldn't have even heard of them let alone seen them play.

 

[IGSpur]

it's kind of weird when you see players come through who you've watched play in u18 games in front of 50 people. like tariq lamptey for example getting lots of [well deserved] praise for his recent performances, kind of makes me feel a bit itk having watched these players from a young age where all but a very small minority wouldn't have even heard of them let alone seen them play.

Ye. When they get called up to England squads at u15 and start taking pictures with each other, it is weird to see them plaiyng actual football 2 years later. I remember when John and all of them were in pics together, even think there was one of Musiala and Bellingham. All very weird how quick they're progressing now.

Also, what you say is the same with James. People were going on about AWB costing 70m so it made him a better player than James and it was clear to me who the better player was. And I have zero doubt in my mind that Lamptey will be higher rated than Aarons at the end of this year. I thought he was better than Aarons last season but what matters is who is the one getting chances.

 

[IGSpur]

Little post about a few striker situations.

-I was going to mention Delap(03) a couple of weeks ago but his 'come up' has been very sudden. While he's been talked about for a while in the academy setup and represented England this he has really started this season strongly, with comparisons to Shearer. I think he's currently City's next big talent as he is banging them in and as you may be aware his finish for his first goal for City quality. In terms of first team quality, the 03s have a great lineup and in terms of stars are the next best after the 00s

-----------------Patino-----------
-----John(eyes emoji-Bellingham
Elliot----------------------------Musiala
-----------------Delap-----------------

Is a ridiculous attack, and they sill have, Louie Barry (st), Dembele, Illing, and West Ham have a good winger in Diallo, who I think is still injured. But those players on paper are quality.

-Folari Balogun(01) at Arsenal appears to be leaving and he is part of their great generation. They had two other quality strikers in John-Jules and Coyle who appear to have slowed in their development, but I really like Balogun and apparently Sheffield United are sniffing around. I was gonna suggest we should pick him up but forgot we had Parrott. Part of me wants him to go abroad, but I think striker is one of those positions here where it's easier to come through so the SU move could be decent.

-Bobby Duncan(01) is back in England after his apparently disastrous move to Fiorentina. Absolutely banged them in when he was in the academy, to the point where he kept Greenwood out of his age group, but then his agent started playing games, moved him to Pool and then Italy. Hopefully now he's at Derby who have a good contingent of young English players he can start to find his confidence again, though Derby don't seem to have started too well

Edit - forgot the other one I wanted to talk about was Adam Armstrong (97) who was a regularly for his age group and won the u17 Euros and u20 World Cup with Onomah. He and Solanke were the first choice pair for that age group ahead of Abraham and Rashford. He is finally starting to fulfil some of his promise and bagged 16 goals last season in the Champiionship and has started this year on fire. Was a really good player with a proper shot on him. Hopefully he continues to have a great season.

 

[IGSpur]

Little post about a few striker situations.

-I was going to mention Delap(03) a couple of weeks ago but his 'come up' has been very sudden. While he's been talked about for a while in the academy setup and represented England this he has really started this season strongly, with comparisons to Shearer. I think he's currently City's next big talent as he is banging them in and as you may be aware his finish for his first goal for City quality. In terms of first team quality, the 03s have a great lineup and in terms of stars are the next best after the 00s

-----------------Patino-----------
-----John(eyes emoji-Bellingham
Elliot----------------------------Musiala
-----------------Delap-----------------

Is a ridiculous attack, and they sill have, Louie Barry (st), Dembele, Illing, and West Ham have a good winger in Diallo, who I think is still injured. But those players on paper are quality.

-Folari Balogun(01) at Arsenal appears to be leaving and he is part of their great generation. They had two other quality strikers in John-Jules and Coyle who appear to have slowed in their development, but I really like Balogun and apparently Sheffield United are sniffing around. I was gonna suggest we should pick him up but forgot we had Parrott. Part of me wants him to go abroad, but I think striker is one of those positions here where it's easier to come through so the SU move could be decent.

-Bobby Duncan(01) is back in England after his apparently disastrous move to Fiorentina. Absolutely banged them in when he was in the academy, to the point where he kept Greenwood out of his age group, but then his agent started playing games, moved him to Pool and then Italy. Hopefully now he's at Derby who have a good contingent of young English players he can start to find his confidence again, though Derby don't seem to have started too well

Edit - forgot the other one I wanted to talk about was Adam Armstrong (97) who was a regularly for his age group and won the u17 Euros and u20 World Cup with Onomah. He and Solanke were the first choice pair for that age group ahead of Abraham and Rashford. He is finally starting to fulfil some of his promise and bagged 16 goals last season in the Champiionship and has started this year on fire. Was a really good player with a proper shot on him. Hopefully he continues to have a great season.

And Folarinand Duncan are back in the England squad.

Shame Edwards not in the u21s but fair enough to give McNeil a chance. Very strong squad from them.

Think they couldve done more with the u20s.

The most glaring omission is Musiala who I fear may now go back to Germany, which is frustrating.

But we'll reach a bottle neck at RB and in attacking positions so we'll see if the dual nationals will wait for their chance or will opt to play for countries which have decent national teams

 

[IGSpur]

Angel Gomes got another goal, scoring from almost the halfway line. He seems to have his confidence back which is great to see