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AberdeenYid

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Oct 18, 2006
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If the past is anything to by they will prioritize servicing debts and financing less risky projects that can expand our income base. I will be very surprised if they start prioritizing the team, other than look to get us back into CL to keep that income source but to see us go for the title with high end premium targeted purchases is a pipe dream. I hope you’re right mate but we‘ve been hearing the future’s bright for 20 years now... be nice to get there at some point...
They’ll need to prioritise the team, definitely to get us back into the top four, as we can’t afford too long out of the CL before ENIC start to lose fortunes. Once we are strong enough to be regular top four again, we’ve as much chance of winning a couple of titles or trophies as anyone else does. With more luck in the past with injuries and a stronger mentality, we’d have seen that already. Just wasn’t to be though.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
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Just to state the obvious though the less debt and the greater the assets attached to Spurs the more profit they can get when they sell. As far as an investment for their own interest they’re doing a great job.
Just to state the obvious, less debt is better for the club. Just to state the obvious, the more successful the team, will he more profit they can get when they sell.

Results on the pitch have improved since they’ve been in charge. An inconvenient truth.
Whatever the plan is we need substantial investment in the playing squad. Covid or no covid Liverpool will continue to invest in their squad even though they don't need much investment. Man City, Man utd, and Chelsea will continue to spend big and wolves with thier rich owners will also continue to spend big.
Is that the same Liverpool who only spent 10m this season? Whose two signings have yet to play for the club? Who made 30m surplus in the transfer market?

They seem to have done ok.

Yes, they invested significantly and well in previous years but it is evidence that one season of no effective spending will not sink a club...
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
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They’ll need to prioritise the team, definitely to get us back into the top four, as we can’t afford too long out of the CL before ENIC start to lose fortunes. Once we are strong enough to be regular top four again, we’ve as much chance of winning a couple of titles or trophies as anyone else does. With more luck in the past with injuries and a stronger mentality, we’d have seen that already. Just wasn’t to be though.
Sorry mate disagree, ‘when we’re strong again’ other big boys when near titles invest where needed to get there and have proven that time over by winning. Sure injuries play a part, especially when you don’t replace injured players! Mentality also but that is self fulfilling in the actions we take. It’s about giving yourself the best chance to get over the line, striking when iron is hot and we have consistently massively failed at that. Agree ENIC and fans interests align for CL qualification, but they most definitely don’t in the pursuit of trophies, too much risk without the ambition...
 

Mark_147

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,807
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Really? Because every reliable Liverpool journalists says exact opposite of that. And Chelsea are spending big on wrong players. Current rumours about Wolves doesn't say it too.
So rumours, rumours and rumours. No club comes out and states in advance what their transfer plans are for the coming season and I did state Liverpool don't actually need to spend and would still be at least 2 seasons ahead of us. Ziyech and werner looked pretty damn good against us in the champions league so I wish we could sign these wrong signings.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
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Sorry mate disagree, ‘when we’re strong again’ other big boys when near titles invest where needed to get there and have proven that time over by winning. Sure injuries play a part, especially when you don’t replace injured players! Mentality also but that is self fulfilling in the actions we take. It’s about giving yourself the best chance to get over the line, striking when iron is hot and we have consistently massively failed at that. Agree ENIC and fans interests align for CL qualification, but they most definitely don’t in the pursuit of trophies, too much risk without the ambition...

We are not a club of a comparable stature to the rest of the top 6. To reach that stature we need to increase revenue so we can offer competitive wages and compete for more expensive transfers. This is one of the biggest misconceptions, you cannot compare us to the rest of the big six, we were way bellow them in terms of income and capacity to invest.

ENIC have made risks, they have chosen to go for a super costly stadium strategy in the hope that it would attract other activities and money could be made in numerous ways. It appeared that risk was paying off, but covid makes us vulnerable, more vulnerable than people realise. OK, one season more of COVID we will be ok, but COVID isn't likely to be going anywhere fast and it might affect football for a few seasons. I guarantee that a top division club will go broke before COVID is finished, a lot of clubs still don't understand just how bad this could get.

I agree if we could have made a few changes and got the right people in we might have done a bit better. But, I also think it's not that simple to blame it on ENIC, but also on the coaching staff attitude of 'no deal is better than a player we are not 100% convinced of'. There are mistakes though, but performance wise ENIC has broadly overachieved and been part of transforming the outlook of the club. When ENIC came in we were talking about the Europa league in the same way you are talking about trophies.
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,173
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So rumours, rumours and rumours. No club comes out and states in advance what their transfer plans are for the coming season and I did state Liverpool don't actually need to spend and would still be at least 2 seasons ahead of us. Ziyech and werner looked pretty damn good against us in the champions league so I wish we could sign these wrong signings.
Chelsea need new defenders, with wrong signings I meant Havertz. You just said that Liverpool will spend big which looks like false. You just listed 5 clubs who will spend big this summer, do you know their transfer plans or is it just rumors?
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
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So rumours, rumours and rumours. No club comes out and states in advance what their transfer plans are for the coming season and I did state Liverpool don't actually need to spend and would still be at least 2 seasons ahead of us. Ziyech and werner looked pretty damn good against us in the champions league so I wish we could sign these wrong signings.
Liverpool wont spend big, Klopp has essentially come out and said so. Yeh Chelsea are replacing their ageing forward line, but it sounds a bit like us signing Lo Celso and N'dombele, and forgetting the need of a holding midfielder and a fullback.
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,125
6,743
Just to state the obvious, less debt is better for the club. Just to state the obvious, the more successful the team, will he more profit they can get when they sell.

Results on the pitch have improved since they’ve been in charge. An inconvenient truth.

Is that the same Liverpool who only spent 10m this season? Whose two signings have yet to play for the club? Who made 30m surplus in the transfer market?

They seem to have done ok.

Yes, they invested significantly and well in previous years but it is evidence that one season of no effective spending will not sink a club...
To state the obvious i assume most fans would rather the club had 100m more debt now and a trophy, we can talk about the future forever but are we ever going to win trophies under ENIC? So far the stadium much like CL qualification was talked about as the game changer is not proving to make us more successful. Ah but the future’s bright right? What 5/10/20 years Enics ambitions will change?... Look if you’re happy thereabouts with the mirage of success ENIC are your men.
 

Mark_147

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,807
3,019
Just to state the obvious, less debt is better for the club. Just to state the obvious, the more successful the team, will he more profit they can get when they sell.

Results on the pitch have improved since they’ve been in charge. An inconvenient truth.

Is that the same Liverpool who only spent 10m this season? Whose two signings have yet to play for the club? Who made 30m surplus in the transfer market?

They seem to have done ok.

Yes, they invested significantly and well in previous years but it is evidence that one season of no effective spending will not sink a club...
As I clearly stated Liverpool don't need to invest as they are so far ahead of the rest and as for one season of not spending not sinking a club don't forget the 18 months of no investment has already sunk the club.
 

Mark_147

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
1,807
3,019
Liverpool wont spend big, Klopp has essentially come out and said so. Yeh Chelsea are replacing their ageing forward line, but it sounds a bit like us signing Lo Celso and N'dombele, and forgetting the need of a holding midfielder and a fullback.
Transfer window ain't closed and I'm sure Chelsea will continue to strengthen. Liverpool don't need to spend big and I'm sure klopp wouldn't tell us if he intended to.
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,125
6,743
We are not a club of a comparable stature to the rest of the top 6. To reach that stature we need to increase revenue so we can offer competitive wages and compete for more expensive transfers. This is one of the biggest misconceptions, you cannot compare us to the rest of the big six, we were way bellow them in terms of income and capacity to invest.

ENIC have made risks, they have chosen to go for a super costly stadium strategy in the hope that it would attract other activities and money could be made in numerous ways. It appeared that risk was paying off, but covid makes us vulnerable, more vulnerable than people realise. OK, one season more of COVID we will be ok, but COVID isn't likely to be going anywhere fast and it might affect football for a few seasons. I guarantee that a top division club will go broke before COVID is finished, a lot of clubs still don't understand just how bad this could get.

I agree if we could have made a few changes and got the right people in we might have done a bit better. But, I also think it's not that simple to blame it on ENIC, but also on the coaching staff attitude of 'no deal is better than a player we are not 100% convinced of'. There are mistakes though, but performance wise ENIC has broadly overachieved and been part of transforming the outlook of the club. When ENIC came in we were talking about the Europa league in the same way you are talking about trophies.
Some valid points, I was responding to comparisons that we had equal opportunity so on that point we can agree, we most definitely don’t... But we could also make more off a push on the few occasions we have a chance, if anything we have more reason too... with the hope that one day we would be on equal footing, the only way of that happening is for us to become successful, not talking CL qualification successful... I’ll leave it at that. Sorry mate, ran out of steam, I’ll let someone else pick up the mantle...
 

AberdeenYid

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
450
874
As I clearly stated Liverpool don't need to invest as they are so far ahead of the rest and as for one season of not spending not sinking a club don't forget the 18 months of no investment has already sunk the club.
Just remember that when we embarked on our 18 month transfer embargo, we’d finished above Liverpool maybe 10 years out of 12. We were well ahead of them. And we will be again. They presently have the issue that they don’t know how to strengthen. Who do they drop? We weren’t far off that 3-4 years ago. Hopefully they will make the same mistake we did.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Some valid points, I was responding to comparisons that we had equal opportunity so on that point we can agree, we most definitely don’t... But we could also make more off a push on the few occasions we have a chance, if anything we have more reason too... with the hope that one day we would be on equal footing, the only way of that happening is for us to become successful, not talking CL qualification successful... I’ll leave it at that. Sorry mate, ran out of steam, I’ll let someone else pick up the mantle...

I don't blame you for running out of steam. The internet is exhausting.

This point I don't agree. Success on the pitch is closely correlated with finances. You can have a successful team, for a few years, but to have a successful consistent club, you need the money and the instructor. That is stadium, CL helps, even this stupid illogical documentary is there to promote our 'brand' (urg makes me sick calling our club a brand) and that will create more income. These are absolutely linked.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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Just remember that when we embarked on our 18 month transfer embargo, we’d finished above Liverpool maybe 10 years out of 12. We were well ahead of them. And we will be again. They presently have the issue that they don’t know how to strengthen. Who do they drop? We weren’t far off that 3-4 years ago. Hopefully they will make the same mistake we did.
Why would they? They won't spend much because its COVID, it would be a pointless risk to spend big. Again, I think people are under playing the extent of the damage COVID might have. we could be looking at years of reduced capacity stadiums.
 

WinksyBoy

How does one change one's username....?
Jun 26, 2020
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1,588
Again, I couldn’t care less about how it might make our fans come across. Those of us who are proper fans have followed the club through thick and thin are fully aware that our constant failings on the pitch are due to ENIC/LEVY.

Yes the stadium and training ground are great, no-one is saying they’re not but football is not just about having a nice stadium and training ground it’s about winning ON the pitch, the way the football side of the club has been run is simply not good enough and so many of ENIC’s actions of the years have proved their n.o1 priority is making profit from owning us, it’s literally what their company stands for.

Trust me, this is not about ‘having a slump’ this is an accumulation of things over many years, the frustration has been building and now a large majority of Spurs fans are rightly angry at this and the lack of a clear strategy on the pitch and any care and regard for the fans.

You say he’s got far more right than he’s got wrong, sorry but he really hasn’t. And we’ve only had some consistent success over the past 10 years of so because other top clubs have been a mess, many of whom are now very strong again.

Apart from the training ground, stadium and hiring Poch (but not properly backing him), here are some things your glorified Lord Levy has got wrong just to spell it out for you:

•Hiring Hoddle
•Awful scouting and football set-up for many years
•Not investing enough in the team as net spend being £0 was priority n.o1
•When we did generally spend we royally messed it up because the scouting and football set-up is poor and Levy is too involved in it, here are a number of players we’ve spunked money on with no plan:
-Ndombele
-Sissoko
-Soldado
-Lamela
-Aurier
-Bent
-Janssen
-Paulinho
-Rebrov
-Njie
-Capoue
-Nkoudu
-Chriches
-Postiga
-Andy Reid
-Wimmer
-Giovanni Dos Santos
-Stambouli
-Rasiak

•We’ve heard from virtually all our managers that they very rarely get their top targets and this not just because we don’t pay the pages or aren’t an attractive enough club it’s because Levy is more concerned with ‘getting a deal’ and buying 3 Nike’s than one Mane.
•He pisses off many other clubs and chairmen and women to the point they don’t want to deal with us anymore, how can that be a healthy way to negotiate
•We buy shit players with no plan as to how they fit a system and then hold onto players far too long because levy wants ridiculous prices for them
•We time and again take far too long to get deals over the line which inveriably fall apart last minute for one of 100 excuses “oh we tried” and so we’ve started many a season with squad discontent and the manager not being able to have a proper pre season and plan and prepare properly
•His general actions have shown time and time again that he doesn’t care for the fans or staff at the club, he care about profit, this is not how I want my club to be run, this what is embarrassing!
-Furloighing staff to save a measly few £‘s when we had record profits (how do you think this would have effected the morale of our club staff?)
-Charging the highest ticket prices with one league cup in 20 years in return
-Self imposed transfer ban
-Taking 20 years to build a stadium that was late and way over budget
-Sacking Martin Jol mid game
-Multiple manager hire failures:
Hoddle, Santini (then got lucky with Jol who was an assistant manager who fell into the job and did very well), Ramos, AVB, Mouriniho (still early days sure but my god he’s sucked any joy out of the club and the football we see). So out of 8 managerial hires he’s got 5 badly wrong, he stumbled upon Jol then Sacked him mid game, he got Redknapp to rescue us and he did well hiring poch and then didn’t back him and now he’s made yet another horrible decision getting Jose in.
•When we had 2 title pushes he signed us Nelson & Saha and njje & Janssen.
•Listen to many ex player interviews and many of them say he’s hard to deal with

Ultimately football is about enjoyment and success and club culture ok. Whilst we are not the most successful club ever and sure times have changed during the PL, we had before levy took over won 8 FA cups, first side ever to do the double, first side to win a European trophy and have 2 or 3 if I’m not mistaken and have only not been in the top flight for one or mabye two periods in our entire history, we are no mugs. Our club was build on the Billy Nicks and Danny Blanchflowers and Dave Mckays, we have virtually always played entertaining football and we’ve done things the right way, Levy cares only about profit which has been to a detriment on the pitch and has held us back from winning things time and time again with no clear or successful plan for the football side of the business. Added to that he treats a lot of our managers and players like shit and has no regard for our fans with the prices and decisions he’s made.

And to top it all off, he fires our most loved and successful manager in recent times and replaces him with an Ex-Chelsea over the hill manager who plays the most dire horrible football many of us have ever witnessed. We might have a great new stadium and training ground but at what cost? ENIC/LEVY have taken the heart and soul of the club and supporting Spurs is predictable with the same rinse and repeat pattern under Levy and right now it’s just not enjoyable.

Thanks for the stadium and training ground and for the Poch years but it’s time now to sell up to owners who care about the fans and who want and have a plan for success ON the pitch.

COYS
'proper fan'.......:meh:
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2013
6,808
11,492
Levy never makes the final move, it's either us lacking a backup striker (from infamous Nelson and Saha transfer to today), when Leicester won the league they signed couple of players in January and we signed noone etc. Next season we will be without Europa competitions and with perfect opporutunity to focus on the league and we will look for bargains and not improve the team enough. Hojbjerg, Willian, Millik, Castagne etc are good if we want to be top 10 but won't be enough for top 4 or any relevant trophy. Still better than most owners, they are just opposite of "to dare is to do". And if Joe Lewis cared more that would be great too.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
To state the obvious i assume most fans would rather the club had 100m more debt now and a trophy, we can talk about the future forever but are we ever going to win trophies under ENIC? So far the stadium much like CL qualification was talked about as the game changer is not proving to make us more successful. Ah but the future’s bright right? What 5/10/20 years Enics ambitions will change?... Look if you’re happy thereabouts with the mirage of success ENIC are your men.
In which season would 100m signings have guaranteed us trophies?

The evidence against your point of view is that FACTUALLY we have been more successful over time with enic in charge. If that continues then it won’t be long before we win trophies.
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,173
17,393
Levy never makes the final move, it's either us lacking a backup striker (from infamous Nelson and Saha transfer to today), when Leicester won the league they signed couple of players in January and we signed noone etc.
Leicester in winter 15/16 signed two players. They played 278 minutes combined, starting 2 games.
 

HedgieSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2020
1,470
4,971
It doesn't have to all be on Levy for him to shoulder a huge amount of the blame. I wrote about this in the Mourinho thread where we're having a similar debate, but Poch's supposed stubbornness that summer came as the result of years of frustration with our transfer dealings. He was repeatedly given bargain basement alternatives to the players he actually wanted. Njie, Janssen, Nkoudou, Aurier, Sissoko as a right winger, none of them were his top choices and none of them worked out.

We also can't forget that Levy fucked around on the Grealish deal that summer and Villa told us to do one after they'd been rescued. If Levy had just stumped up the 25m they were demanding in June 2018 it would have made a massive, massive difference over the past two seasons.

Had it not been for years of failed transfer dealings Poch never would have reached his breaking point. Levy bears blame for the fact that he was not able to work together with Poch to develop a list of legitimate, quality alternatives to the first choice targets in 2018 or in any summer leading up to it. Our scouts were piss poor for years, we had no coherent transfer strategy, and the relationship between Levy and his manager deteriorated completely. All of that has cost us massively, and Levy absolutely deserves a lot of blame for it even if the blame is not his alone.

I do wonder about this tbh. You said: "He was repeatedly given bargain basement alternatives to the players he actually wanted. Njie, Janssen, Nkoudou, Aurier, Sissoko as a right winger, none of them were his top choices and none of them worked out."

but there appears to be an assumption in there about Poch which essentially has come to mean:

"Because none of them worked out, they were not his top choices"

Its funny how so many of our fans blame the shit players as Levy signings and laud the good ones as Poch signings. That might well be the case, but Ive seen little to no evidence of it.
 
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