ENIC...

mill said:

We could at least do more to make the most of what we have and not shit the bed when we’re in a position of strength on the pitch

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Not sure what we could have done to improve things a couple of seasons ago. We had the best first eleven and best squad IMO, but shat it when the crunch came. If anything, we could maybe have spent a bit of money in the barren windows on a couple of young prospects or championship punts, but can’t see who we could have replaced that played regularly.

It’s stuff like Sissoko pointing at the moon. Kane playing when he can hardly walk. Vorm in goal in the cups. Son at left back. Hoping Dele will stop being crap and become good again. Signing players and never playing them. Letting Eriksen take corners. Stuff like that was why we haven’t won anything, not our inability to sign Dybala.

And even if we had spent another £200m, we’d still be up against other teams in the league that only lose once a season and get 100 points.

Dillspur said:

Isn't FFP calculated over a 3/4 year period? Over that time we've had record profits twice, and very little spend, I realize that we spent in the summer and winter window but that spread over the that period compared to income is still relatively small, if someone wanted to come and spend, I would think the first year they could actually go pretty big.

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Fair, we could go and have a big first window and try to settle half a dozen into the squad, but then we’d have issues, unless we can start using and filling the stadium again.

But still means finding someone with £2.5b to chuck down a hole and also needs everyone else to have a mare, like during the Leicester season, for us to win anything.

With everyone skint and transfer fees likely to be lower now could be a good time for enic to invest their own money (????? yeah I know) but we all know it won’t happen

On the FFP, I wonder if UEFA will consider suspending it for this and next season?

AberdeenYid said:

Not sure what we could have done to improve things a couple of seasons ago. We had the best first eleven and best squad IMO, but shat it when the crunch came. If anything, we could maybe have spent a bit of money in the barren windows on a couple of young prospects or championship punts, but can’t see who we could have replaced that played regularly.

It’s stuff like Sissoko pointing at the moon. Kane playing when he can hardly walk. Vorm in goal in the cups. Son at left back. Hoping Dele will stop being crap and become good again. Signing players and never playing them. Letting Eriksen take corners. Stuff like that was why we haven’t won anything, not our inability to sign Dybala.

And even if we had spent another £200m, we’d still be up against other teams in the league that only lose once a season and get 100 points.

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Twice IMO when we’ve been close to really competing and neededextra quality to push on enic have been found wanting

Dillspur said:

On the FFP, I wonder if UEFA will consider suspending it for this and next season?

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They have iirc

edit:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-12-months-across-european-football-ease/amp/

Tottenhamboy85 said:

They have iirc

edit:https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-12-months-across-european-football-ease/amp/

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Nice, let's go crazy!!! Dust your credit card and wheelbarrow off Levy...

Dillspur said:

Nice, let's go crazy!!! Dust your credit card and wheelbarrow off Levy...

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I joke about this, but with the loan we just got and no FFP, this window really should be a "to dare is to do" type window.

WhiteStripe said:

What is Enics fault is the failure to invest significantly in an ageing squad over the past 3 years.

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No, that was Poch's fault remember. Now we've sacked him EVERYTHING WILL BE JUST FINE.

mill said:

Twice IMO when we’ve been close to really competing and neededextra quality to push on enic have been found wanting

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Exactly. A team who had just come real close to winning the title and was very much at the height of its powers needs an extra little push. You can do that by bringing in one true class player.

As I mentioned before, Fergie would always think very strategically and ruthlessly when his team missed out on the title.

He would either go buy a player in an area they already had options but maybe needed something better or he'd sell a Van Nistelrooy and significantly improve an area that needs bolstering like he did with Carrick.

I think our clear problem was not signing a big striker to go alongside and rotate with Kane. Instead we got an ageing Llorente on the cheap and 6 months later a quick fix deal for Lucas. I know those two players helped give us two of our most memorable victories in history but I'd trade that if it meant we signed a player that helped Kane and allowed us to maintain the level with which we were at.

That was the moment to say "Which big quality attacker could we sign for 50m now" but we didn't, we went for the cheaper option as always. Imagine if we'd have thrown 30m at Salah instead or been adament the only way City get Walker is if we get Sancho or if we'd got Pulisic. Yes there are no guarantees but you have to strike whilst the iron is hot.

You can then balance the outlay by signing young English players or potential players from the world (like Fergie did too). For example, Walker left and we could have signed a young RB that wouldn't cost the earth and may be raw but it's okay cause Trippier cam stand in. Its true we signed Foyth but the kid had barely played any professional minutes and it's clear there was no real strategy for his development.

Instead we went bargain hunting. Sell Walker for 50m, take his replacement from PSG (Who don't want him) for half the price, waste time tracking strikers we had no intention of signing until we managed to find a cheap last minute deal.

There's no coherent plan behind it and we seem to just take what we can. Whilst the team has now regressed I believe one big signing and a couple of young acquisitions in 2017 would have led to continual competition at the top and an easier transition.

The lack of investment is going to lead to huge losses. Levy really isn't the business genius he thinks he is. So now you don't get your champions league games or the commercial deals that he so badly wants. At some point you have to take a risk

rossdapep said:

This person isn't English so it's possible he meant differently but I understood the tone. It's not our sole goal, of course we'd like to win but other things are important too.

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This is the same club that has a sizeable chunk of the fanbase that genuinely believes that only the Prem or CL are worth winning and would moan if the club managed to drag itself to an FA or League cup. It’s not that the club doesn’t like to win it’s just that it doesn’t care if they don’t. But ‘the game is about glory’ isn’t it lol

King of Otters said:

No, that was Poch's fault remember. Now we've sacked him EVERYTHING WILL BE JUST FINE.

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To be fair he's as complicit if not more so than the chairman. At least Levy has had the excuse of being tied up with the stadium build 24/7 for the last 3-5 years. Pochettino made his powerplay in the good times, got 'promoted' from Head Coach to Manager with great song and dance, and was therefore de facto running the football side of things and all it encompasses - coaching, scouting, recruitment, youth, etc. Now though we see that was clearly beyond him, and whilst the budget may have been tighter than he/we would have liked I think the main problem is that we haven't been able to identify targets or have any sort of structure/network in place. And whilst towards the end he talked about a rebuild, all evidence on match days was him just persevering with favourites he'd got too attached to and couldn't move on from for 12-18 months.

I personally have been discussing and debating for years a different management structure and that it is fucking bonkers to put it all on one guy like that and disagreed with it, but in fairness Levy was backing the manager, and I'm sure everyone would have been totally cool if it had come out that Poch wanted to assume responsibility for this and that but Levy wouldn't let him....

They both share in it, neither worked out how to refresh and renew from a relative position of strength and probably put off making big decisions and weren't ruthless enough. It was probably new territory for them both - for the first time Levy had a strong Spurs team of 'stars' dining at the top table rather than operating/buying out of necessity/desperation lower down the food chain, and Poch had never managed a side beyond a couple of years and had to rebuild a team before.

Issue with me isn't investment, as you can argue we have blown our transfer budget numerous occasions over last few seasons (N'Dombele, Lamela, Sanchez etc). The problem for me, is the areas of investment and not strengthening where we needed to.

You look at all our great players that have played with us, and there is a common theme (DoF):
Modric, Berbatov, Bale, Lennon and Huddlestone - These were scouted and recruited by Damian Comolli (DoF)
Keane, Defoe and Carrick - David Pleat DoF

Bright Academy players that came through our system and now Liverpools:
Alex Inglethorpe: Was part of our Academy setup that coached and developed Kane, Mason, Townsend, Winks
Since 2012 after leaving Spurs for Liverpool, Harry Wilson, Alex Trent-Arnold, Sterling where he is now head of academy at Liverpool.

We have also lost Paul Mitchell and Ian Broomfield, where it was said that our scouting department was laughable in comparison to other big clubs.

For me, it’s about off the field stuff, and that we are better when we have a DoF and great scouting network. Losing Ingelthorpe, a DoF, scouting team and now academy head John McDermott are loses we need to replace as a priority just as much as players.

Beni said:

Issue with me isn't investment, as you can argue we have blown our transfer budget numerous occasions over last few seasons (N'Dombele, Lamela, Sanchez etc). The problem for me, is the areas of investment and not strengthening where we needed to.

You look at all our great players that have played with us, and there is a common theme (DoF):
Modric, Berbatov, Bale, Lennon and Huddlestone - These were scouted and recruited by Damian Comolli (DoF)
Keane, Defoe and Carrick - David Pleat DoF

Bright Academy players that came through our system and now Liverpools:
Alex Inglethorpe: Was part of our Academy setup that coached and developed Kane, Mason, Townsend, Winks
Since 2012 after leaving Spurs for Liverpool, Harry Wilson, Alex Trent-Arnold, Sterling where he is now head of academy at Liverpool.

We have also lost Paul Mitchell and Ian Broomfield, where it was said that our scouting department was laughable in comparison to other big clubs.

For me, it’s about off the field stuff, and that we are better when we have a DoF and great scouting network. Losing Ingelthorpe, a DoF, scouting team and now academy head John McDermott are loses we need to replace as a priority just as much as players.

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There’s something else most of our better signings have in common - they didn’t cost fortunes. Seems to me that every time we bang a wad down for a player, they end up not working out.

AberdeenYid said:

There’s something else most of our better signings have in common - they didn’t cost fortunes. Seems to me that every time we bang a wad down for a player, they end up not working out.

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Agreed, it appears that the strategy then was for find a player cheap and sell on. Now that we no longer in a position to sell our star players, we are now thinking paying more means getting more. We have completely forgotten that our previous transfer strategy works but with now added bonus of not having to sell like we had to before.

AberdeenYid said:

There’s something else most of our better signings have in common - they didn’t cost fortunes. Seems to me that every time we bang a wad down for a player, they end up not working out.

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I think it's unfair to judge the players we bang a wad when we haven't made sure to invest in players and a system which allows those players to play in the positions or structure in which they were thriving which had us interested in the first place. Take Ndombele and Lo Celso for example. We signed Lo Celso because of his form in a false 9 role at Betis and because we don't have a DM we are playing him in the number 6 role. Ndombele we're unable to get on the field because we don't have the sufficient DM to allow him to play in a way which maximises his strengths and covers his weaknesses. If we want to sign top talents then we need to build a structure which allows them to thrive, not force them into uncomfortable situations and that's the responsibility of the parties involved in our transfer committee last summer.

On the point of relaxing FFP over the next two seasons to my eyes it should be even tougher for the following two reasons if it is relaxed .
No1 the uber rich will go mental and pull further away because the money is no object .
No 2 Those that spend money they dont have will be in danger of bankruptcy and this is the reason FFP was supposedly set up for altho we all know it was set up to curtail Man City Chelsea Juventus PSG from taking over their own domestic plus european competitions under the guise of their real concern their EUFA 's own favourites Real and Barca were in danger of being left behind .
So I say do not relax FFP it will play into the hands of the uber rich soon to be joined by Newcastle and that will be nice for all us other fans will it not ?

mill said:

Twice IMO when we’ve been close to really competing and neededextra quality to push on enic have been found wanting

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So our managers have found out.

wrd said:

I think it's unfair to judge the players we bang a wad when we haven't made sure to invest in players and a system which allows those players to play in the positions or structure in which they were thriving which had us interested in the first place. Take Ndombele and Lo Celso for example. We signed Lo Celso because of his form in a false 9 role at Betis and because we don't have a DM we are playing him in the number 6 role. Ndombele we're unable to get on the field because we don't have the sufficient DM to allow him to play in a way which maximises his strengths and covers his weaknesses. If we want to sign top talents then we need to build a structure which allows them to thrive, not force them into uncomfortable situations and that's the responsibility of the parties involved in our transfer committee last summer.

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I know they’re our top two signings, but not yet including them as they could still turn it around. I’m more going back a bit to Bent, Bentley, Rebrov, Postiga, Paulinho, Soldado, amongst others. Then I look at “cheap” signings like Bale, Dele, Dier, Wanyama, Walker, Rose. I know where I think the better value is. By making huge signings like GLC and Tanguy, we’ve forgotten what brought us to the party in the first place.

Edit - I’m aware I’m just picking players to prove my point. I know there are exceptions.