Jose Mourinho

Everlasting Seconds · Feb 24, 2020

thebenjamin said:
I think overall with Jose, if he has a squad full of top players and particularly individually talented forwards, everything will be OK. But the moment he detects any kind of weakness in his own side, he will default to his fear based instincts. If you look at the 7 point plan for winning matches that was in his biography, it's there in what we're witnessing on the pitch:

1 The game is won by the team who commits fewer errors.

2 Football favours whoever provokes more errors in the opposition.

3 Away from home, instead of trying to be superior to the opposition, it’s better to encourage their mistakes.

4 Whoever has the ball is more likely to make a mistake.

5 Whoever renounces possession reduces the possibility of making a mistake.

6 Whoever has the ball has fear.

7 Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.

I don't know if it's possible for there to be a more different football philosophy than Poch's 'be brave' -- but certainly in appointing Mourinho, DL showed that there is not overarching football DNA in his stewardship of Tottenham. We have lurched from one extreme to the other.

This is correct and I think most of us knew this when he was appointed. I for one in fact actively welcomed a shift away from the "possessed by possession stats" philosophy. I still count it as an overall great improvement that we now don't play for the sake of having possession. However, by an afterthought you point to something else; fear. And yes, what I emphatically suspect, is that Mourinho's biggest weakness is being too fear driven when insecurity overtakes his mind, and giving that up would be of huge benefit.

jimbo · Feb 24, 2020

My feeling is that the earlier games - West Ham, Burnley, Bournemouth are more indicative of how he wants to play than Leipzig/Chelsea. Not all our displays in his 3 months so far have been as turgid as is being made out.

The problem of injury to our main goal threats has been covered, but in my opinion we're also dealing with legacy fitness issues, lack of confidence and form.

I would prefer it personally if we stuck with the 4-2-3-1 if that is the long-term plan but we are where we are. I still don't believe he can be judged until next season.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 24, 2020

thebenjamin said:
I think overall with Jose, if he has a squad full of top players and particularly individually talented forwards, everything will be OK. But the moment he detects any kind of weakness in his own side, he will default to his fear based instincts. If you look at the 7 point plan for winning matches that was in his biography, it's there in what we're witnessing on the pitch:

1 The game is won by the team who commits fewer errors.

2 Football favours whoever provokes more errors in the opposition.

3 Away from home, instead of trying to be superior to the opposition, it’s better to encourage their mistakes.

4 Whoever has the ball is more likely to make a mistake.

5 Whoever renounces possession reduces the possibility of making a mistake.

6 Whoever has the ball has fear.

7 Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.

I don't know if it's possible for there to be a more different football philosophy than Poch's 'be brave' -- but certainly in appointing Mourinho, DL showed that there is not overarching football DNA in his stewardship of Tottenham. We have lurched from one extreme to the other.

Spot on. I didn’t really realise this before but there’s no real attacking plan.

An ex pro said recent pep and Jose have the same knowledge but pep builds from the attack back and Jose the defence forwards and so Jose really relies on the attacking players to kind of work it out themselves And hit teams on the break but if we have barely any of the ball game after game it’s very hard to pull off, especially as we don’t have that many players who can create a goal out of nothing like Kane and son that’s why we will struggle so much now.

I’m sure it will be a little better once Kane and son are back and/or new attacking signings but I can’t see the style fundamentally changing that much to be honest.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 24, 2020

The Scarecrow said:
I don't understand this obsession with possession football. Mourinhos Real Madrid played amazing counter attacking football.

Yea but they had c.ronaldo Di maria peak Ozil peak Adebeyor, possibly benzema as well.

Gb160 · Feb 24, 2020

Wheeler Dealer said:
Do you honestly believe he'll win things here..

I haven't got a clue.
But he's won multiple trophies at every single club he's been at, so I hope that continues here.

The Scarecrow · Feb 24, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Yea but they had c.ronaldo Di maria peak Ozil peak Adebeyor, possibly benzema as well.

We have Kane, Son, Bergwijn, Lo Celso and Ndombele. Not saying that they're necessarily on the same level, but when everyone's fit, I believe we have the players we need to play good counter attacking football (although we need a proper DM).

Everlasting Seconds · Feb 24, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Spot on. I didn’t really realise this before but there’s no real attacking plan.

An ex pro said recent pep and Jose have the same knowledge but pep builds from the attack back and Jose the defence forwards and so Jose really relies on the attacking players to kind of work it out themselves And hit teams on the break but if we have barely any of the ball game after game it’s very hard to pull off, especially as we don’t have that many players who can create a goal out of nothing like Kane and son that’s why we will struggle so much now.

I’m sure it will be a little better once Kane and son are back and/or new attacking signings but I can’t see the style fundamentally changing that much to be honest.

I think this is very true and I actually think it is entertaining when it works. Setting up a team to just let the attackers do what they do and trust in their pure ability to score goals without over-managing their game performance - I like that. The problem is in the irony of when the defensive plan becomes over-managed and as a result the free-flowing attack suffers too.

shelfboy68 · Feb 24, 2020

Gb160 said:
I haven't got a clue.
But he's won multiple trophies at every single club he's been at, so I hope that continues here.

It's the hope that kills you but fortunately there is no WC tournament in the summer to worry about burn out.... Oh fuck wait there is something ? ?

Ronwol196061 · Feb 24, 2020

I cant understand why other teams give us no space trying to move up the field and only when we win the ball when the other team plays high do we gain space.
When the other team has the ball.Its doesn't matter if they have 3 or even 2 players attacking the goal, we give them a ton of space. Sometimes we have a bunch of players ball watching while someone sneaks up in space behind them.
The past season has been like that with either Poch or Mourinho

cliff jones · Feb 24, 2020

thebenjamin said:
I think overall with Jose, if he has a squad full of top players and particularly individually talented forwards, everything will be OK. But the moment he detects any kind of weakness in his own side, he will default to his fear based instincts. If you look at the 7 point plan for winning matches that was in his biography, it's there in what we're witnessing on the pitch:

1 The game is won by the team who commits fewer errors.

2 Football favours whoever provokes more errors in the opposition.

3 Away from home, instead of trying to be superior to the opposition, it’s better to encourage their mistakes.

4 Whoever has the ball is more likely to make a mistake.

5 Whoever renounces possession reduces the possibility of making a mistake.

6 Whoever has the ball has fear.

7 Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.

I don't know if it's possible for there to be a more different football philosophy than Poch's 'be brave' -- but certainly in appointing Mourinho, DL showed that there is not overarching football DNA in his stewardship of Tottenham. We have lurched from one extreme to the other.

thanks mate interesting stuff. But I don't think Poch was that different. Or brave- did we ever truly understand what that meant?

After Peak Poch/Danny/Kyle/Mousa/Victor, his philisophy was to bore the opposition to death by endlessly rolling the ball across the back line. Inferior teams tended to sit back and think fine, we only want a point. Very few came to press.

I remember having to explain to my son during many a sterile first half that we weren't actually trying to score, just tease the opposition out/make them chase. He said well they're not coming out, so we'd beat the queues for half time grub.

spursfan77 · Feb 24, 2020

The Scarecrow said:
I don't understand this obsession with possession football. Mourinhos Real Madrid played amazing counter attacking football.

I don’t have one. I just don’t like the mindset that if you have the ball is more likely to make a mistake. But that’s why I asked for context on that list. Does he mean when your in your own half and being closed down or does he mean when you’re in attack and trying to play a risky pass to make something happen.

dudu · Feb 24, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Spot on. I didn’t really realise this before but there’s no real attacking plan.

An ex pro said recent pep and Jose have the same knowledge but pep builds from the attack back and Jose the defence forwards and so Jose really relies on the attacking players to kind of work it out themselves And hit teams on the break but if we have barely any of the ball game after game it’s very hard to pull off, especially as we don’t have that many players who can create a goal out of nothing like Kane and son that’s why we will struggle so much now.

I’m sure it will be a little better once Kane and son are back and/or new attacking signings but I can’t see the style fundamentally changing that much to be honest.

I think its a tad harsh to say there is no attacking plan. I saw us a few times on the weekend hit Bergwijn for him to lay it back off to the midfield and for us to try and transition as players then ran beyond him but it wasn't really working as we could not execute.

Both Ndombele and Winks were very poor in that first half at moving the ball accurately at the times when we were on the front foot.

Look, I'm not saying it's perfect or even that it's working at all but I personally can see a play there at times.

Not trying to use it as an excuse but really how many times have Moura, GLC, Bergwijn, Ndombele and Winks played together before? How many times have 2/3rds of that group even played for us before at all?

The Scarecrow · Feb 24, 2020

spursfan77 said:
I don’t have one. I just don’t like the mindset that if you have the ball is more likely to make a mistake. But that’s why I asked for context on that list. Does he mean when your in your own half and being closed down or does he mean when you’re in attack and trying to play a risky pass to make something happen.

Yeah, I don't really agree with it either tbf. The idea that you need possession of the ball to make mistakes has been debunked pretty emphatically by our defence in recent years.

Danny1 · Feb 24, 2020

Archibald&Crooks said:
I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time'

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s

Totally agree, since the game on Saturday I have actually put 12 people on block! Before that, I had only ever done one! The whinging, woe is me b*llocks that is being spouted just because they don't like Mourinho is quite frankly boring & embarrassing.

What's worse, a hell of a lot of people are making up random (incorrect) statements to justify their point. I've read things like "Mourinho is in decline", despite winning the Europa League, finishing 2nd in the Premier League & getting to the final of FA Cup with his previous side who we all said were a bunch of garbage footballers, and "Mourinho is a fraud" despite being the most decorated manager in the world who is still in a job.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 24, 2020

Archibald&Crooks said:
I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time'

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s

This is spot on, it’s as clear as the cock on the grand national winner

that this rinse and repeat cycle of managers and squads is down to how the football side of the club is run and then the manager is just the next scapegoat. Quite simply not signing a single player for 2 windows and going into a season with just ONE recognised striker is absoloutle negligence of the highest order. You’d not get a Sunday league squad going into the season with just one striker in the squad so for a champions league finalist team to do so is yet another example of how the miss management of the squad is coming to bite us.

fishhhandaricecake · Feb 24, 2020

Danny1 said:
Totally agree, since the game on Saturday I have actually put 12 people on block! Before that, I had only ever done one! The whinging, woe is me b*llocks that is being spouted just because they don't like Mourinho is quite frankly boring & embarrassing.

What's worse, a hell of a lot of people are making up random (incorrect) statements to justify their point. I've read things like "Mourinho is in decline", despite winning the Europa League, finishing 2nd in the Premier League & getting to the final of FA Cup with his previous side who we all said were a bunch of garbage footballers, and "Mourinho is a fraud" despite being the most decorated manager in the world who is still in a job.

Agree with that, fans need to take a balanced approach. Personally as I’ve said I’m surprised with how little time it’s taken me to be losing patcience with the style of play he’s serving up and based on that and the strength of Liverpool and man.city etc and how competitive top4 now is I’m less confident Jose can win something with us BUT taking the style argument out of it he did do reasonably well for man.utd and he’s very hamstrung by the current squad so it’s defiantly not as straight forward as Jose is a fraud etc.

Danny1 · Feb 24, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Agree with that, fans need to take a balanced approach. Personally as I’ve said I’m surprised with how little time it’s taken me to be losing patcience with the style of play he’s serving up and based on that and the strength of Liverpool and man.city etc and how competitive top4 now is I’m less confident Jose can win something with us BUT taking the style argument out of it he did do reasonably well for man.utd and he’s very hamstrung by the current squad so it’s defiantly not as straight forward as Jose is a fraud etc.

I agree, I think people also need to go back & review Pochs first 10-12 games. They were horrendous and we got very few points, and he had a fully fit squad. It takes managers time to get their team in shape, used to the way they play, with all players fit & raring to go. Lets give Mourinho time, I think he has earned that level of respect in my opinion.

daryl hannah · Feb 24, 2020

Interesting little interview with Jose before the game kicked off on BT Sport. He was basically asked about the striker situation and said without confusion that we didn't have the money to sign a striker because we'd built a world-class stadium.

Edit: "When a club builds the best stadium in the world, a club cannot spend money like some other clubs that it looks like it's opened the tap and the coins are coming."

Edit 2: I think he's saying we don't have unlimited funds because of the stadium.

Metalhead · Feb 24, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Yes he can but Poch wanted full ownership of it, Sir Alex Ferguson style which Levy gave him after numerous Director of Football's came and went. He has spent the fifth highest net spend in the 19/20 transfer windows globally (€141m net spend and that's not including the potential Gedson permanent fee if we were to take up the option to do so).

Since we moved into the new stadium we have spent very well, if we want to point at someone to blame regarding our lack of a striker to fill in when Kane and Son aren available then I think we need to be looking at those wihnthe shopping lists on how to spend that money given to them.

I think we have spent well on good players but ultimately we are short innan area everyone had concerns about. Was the £30m spent this window on Gedson & Bergwijn wisely invested in those two instead of someone different to help us in the here and now? Time will tell I guess.

I'm certainly not blaming DL for us not having a DoF. I just wonder whether there needs to be something in place to try and improve the transfer structure. Whether that is looking at the scouting network or a DoF I have no idea.

Monkey boy · Feb 24, 2020

daryl hannah said:
Interesting little interview with Jose before the game kicked off on BT Sport. He was basically asked about the striker situation and said without confusion that we didn't have the money to sign a striker because we'd built a world-class stadium.

Edit: "When a club builds the best stadium in the world, a club cannot spend money like some other clubs that it looks like it's opened the tap and the coins are coming."

Edit 2: I think he's saying we don't have unlimited funds because of the stadium.

coin is coming? What does that mean?

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But that's a debate for another thread.....

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