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yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
They don’t need it. Hopefully they spent money in the local businesses though.
That is not how this works. The biggest myth of all time is stadiums meaning big business for local shops. This stadium was built with the mindset of getting fans in early to spend money and staying late spending more money. I doubt local business will see much of a benefit from the ground.
I have and will always hate Donna-Maria Cullen
You know she’ll read this, right?
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,487
104,720
That is not how this works. The biggest myth of all time is stadiums meaning big business for local shops. This stadium was built with the mindset of getting fans in early to spend money and staying late spending more money. I doubt local business will see much of a benefit from the ground.

You know she’ll read this, right?

I spend my money out of the ground.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Some of you have short memories remember where we were when Lord Sugar was around, we were a mid table side, we could quite easily have been West Ham level if not for Daniel Levy and ENIC.

Instead we have a state of the art training facility and the best stadium in Europe. We're consistently finishing in Europe's elite competition, we haven't finished lower than 6th for NINE SEASONS and we've done it without selling our soul at a time when masses and masses of money has been pumped into clubs from overseas.

Look at our league finishes:

92/93 - 8th
93/94 - 15th
94/95 - 7th
95/96 - 8th
96/97 - 10th
97/98 - 14th
98/99 - 11th
99/00 - 10th
00/01 - 12th
01/02 - 9th
02/03 - 10th
03/04 - 14th
04/05 - 9th
05/06 - 5th
06/07 - 5th
07/08 - 11th
08/09 - 8th
09/10 - 4th
10/11 - 5th
11/12 - 4th
12/13 - 5th
13/14 - 6th
14/15 - 5th
15/16 - 3rd
16/17 - 2nd
17/18 - 3rd

Let's not become like them pricks up the road moaning on YouTube whilst clubs like Bolton are verging on collapse and we're throwing our toys out of the pram for having a bad patch for the first time in years. We should be thankful ENIC came in when they did, it took a few years but look where we were are now to where we were.

Great post Nick. If we also look back at where we were the season they took over we finished behind big club's like Sunderland, Villa, Newcastle and Leeds. All this talk saying we should have won something because we're a big club just totally ignores the fate of some of the other big club's. The club as a whole is in a much better place than when they took over.
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2008
3,806
16,254
Great post Nick. If we also look back at where we were the season they took over we finished behind big club's like Sunderland, Villa, Newcastle and Leeds. All this talk saying we should have won something because we're a big club just totally ignores the fate of some of the other big club's. The club as a whole is in a much better place than when they took over.
Which is all true as is the the great stadium, facilities etc. but the cold facts are I'm paying some of the highest prices in world football to sit behind the goal watching a distinctly average (and that's being kind) brand of football match after match; it was much easier to justify the price of a ticket in the 90's watching this type of football. My season ticket has increased by 33% with no cup games (when compared to the mob up the road is frankly a disgrace) since Wembley and that was sitting parallel with the 18 yard line. The other, glaring, cold fact is we've won zilch with one of the best squads we've had in my lifetime.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Which is all true as is the the great stadium, facilities etc. but the cold facts are I'm paying some of the highest prices in world football to sit behind the goal watching a distinctly average (and that's being kind) brand of football match after match; it was much easier to justify the price of a ticket in the 90's watching this type of football. My season ticket has increased by 33% with no cup games (when compared to the mob up the road is frankly a disgrace) since Wembley and that was sitting parallel with the 18 yard line. The other, glaring, cold fact is we've won zilch with one of the best squads we've had in my lifetime.

The cold facts are also that you've been watching one of the top four teams in the country for the last few years. Things have been bad this year, but before that most people seemed quite happy with where we were as a club.
I sympathize with what you're saying about the cost of games. I was priced out of football years ago so I completely get what you're saying in that respect. This is probably one of those things where is easy for someone who doesn't go to games often to say that ENIC are doing what's right for the long term future of the club, but it's a different experience for those fans that go to every game and have to live through it.
For what it's worth I think their approach to transfers will change now and we'll see significant investment in the squad each year now. There's certainly no excuse not to invest now.
 

skaz04nik

Active Member
Oct 14, 2019
124
146
DogsOfWar
I am a bit lost how could you distinguish football and business parts of an equation

your estimates seem too optimistic:
- Arsenal had only EUR 60m revenue increase after moving to a new stadium ( similar size) and I could still recall Wenger explaining ticket price increase
- ENIC's stadium project cost us significant squad under-investment.
We should have brought 6-9 new players (on average a good mgr brings 2.5-4 players per window) b/w Jan 18 and Feb 19, we bought one (Moura)

CL football next season is at heavy risk now (no UEFA prize money, issues with commercial revenue improvement etc etc) and, given current form, could end up without European football at all
 

markiespurs

SC Supporter
Jul 9, 2008
11,899
15,576
That is not how this works. The biggest myth of all time is stadiums meaning big business for local shops. This stadium was built with the mindset of getting fans in early to spend money and staying late spending more money. I doubt local business will see much of a benefit from the ground.

That might be the case in America, but certainly not for Tottenham.

The local pubs, take aways and news agents are packed before and after games, so they certainly benefit from the ground.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
That might be the case in America, but certainly not for Tottenham.

The local pubs, take aways and news agents are packed before and after games, so they certainly benefit from the ground.

I happily have at least 2/3 pints before/after games in the Olive Branch and jerk chicken from the couple of places next door to the pub as opposed to getting in the ground early/staying late.
I’d rather get a few cans of red stripe from the local off licences and sit outside in the sun too, than get in the ground too early. Obviously the sun is pretty much done for now but we’ve done that a few times since being back home.

The shitter we play the less dough I spend at the ground. Ticket prices already the highest in the game!

It’s a massive money maker though, the ground. It’s crazy how much money gets spent there
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
DogsOfWar
I am a bit lost how could you distinguish football and business parts of an equation

your estimates seem too optimistic:
- Arsenal had only EUR 60m revenue increase after moving to a new stadium ( similar size) and I could still recall Wenger explaining ticket price increase
- ENIC's stadium project cost us significant squad under-investment.
We should have brought 6-9 new players (on average a good mgr brings 2.5-4 players per window) b/w Jan 18 and Feb 19, we bought one (Moura)

CL football next season is at heavy risk now (no UEFA prize money, issues with commercial revenue improvement etc etc) and, given current form, could end up without European football at all


What! Rarely do any PL clubs buy in January, never mind 3 or 4.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
As an dose of reality, Man City only bought one more first team player (Mahrez) than us in the two windows people talk about.
Man Utd bought two (Fred, Dalot).

Yes, it could have been far better, and a missed opportunity etc., but people are way too hyperbolic about it.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
As an dose of reality, Man City only bought one more first team player (Mahrez) than us in the two windows people talk about.
Man Utd bought two (Fred, Dalot).

Yes, it could have been far better, and a missed opportunity etc., but people are way too hyperbolic about it.

The other reality is that in the last 10 years City & United have spent about 1 billion and 600m more than us on their 1st team squads netto and our 1st team has been running on fumes for about 18 months now!
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
As an dose of reality, Man City only bought one more first team player (Mahrez) than us in the two windows people talk about.
Man Utd bought two (Fred, Dalot).

Yes, it could have been far better, and a missed opportunity etc., but people are way too hyperbolic about it.
Unlike City, though, our inactivity came on the back of years of substandard recruitment. Between our first time qualifying for the CL under Poch and this past summer, this is who we brought in:

16/17 Season
  • Janssen
  • N'Koudou
  • Sissoko
  • Wanyama
17/18 Season
  • Sanchez
  • Foyth
  • Aurier
  • Llorente
  • Moura
18/19 Season
  • Fuck all
Not a single one of those signings has established himself as unquestionably a part of our best XI, at a time when players all throughout the team are underperforming and there's massive opportunity to stake a claim. The only possible exceptions to that would be Wanyama before he was crocked and Sissoko, but even he is only in the team for his workrate and if the whole squad were fit you wouldn't expect to see him week in, week out.

The stagnation had begun long before summer of 18. When you go three seasons without making any improvements you're naturally going to fall behind your rivals. Our recruitment has been disastrous for basically the entire time we've been CL regulars up until this past summer, and it's going to take a long time for us to get out of the hole we've dug for ourselves.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
I said it at the time but the last time we bought nobody in the Summer (and followed that up by buying nobody in the January window) we were relegated 2 seasons later!!
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
As an dose of reality, Man City only bought one more first team player (Mahrez) than us in the two windows people talk about.
Man Utd bought two (Fred, Dalot).

Yes, it could have been far better, and a missed opportunity etc., but people are way too hyperbolic about it.

And City didn’t need anyone as they already have two teams of top quality. United are in a bigger mess than we are.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
Unlike City, though, our inactivity came on the back of years of substandard recruitment. Between our first time qualifying for the CL under Poch and this past summer, this is who we brought in:

16/17 Season
  • Janssen
  • N'Koudou
  • Sissoko
  • Wanyama
17/18 Season
  • Sanchez
  • Foyth
  • Aurier
  • Llorente
  • Moura
18/19 Season
  • Fuck all
Not a single one of those signings has established himself as unquestionably a part of our best XI, at a time when players all throughout the team are underperforming and there's massive opportunity to stake a claim. The only possible exceptions to that would be Wanyama before he was crocked and Sissoko, but even he is only in the team for his workrate and if the whole squad were fit you wouldn't expect to see him week in, week out.

The stagnation had begun long before summer of 18. When you go three seasons without making any improvements you're naturally going to fall behind your rivals. Our recruitment has been disastrous for basically the entire time we've been CL regulars up until this past summer, and it's going to take a long time for us to get out of the hole we've dug for ourselves.

I would love to rate this post winner 5 times. Atrocious recruitment when compared to our rivals.

Wanyama is the only one of that lot, but he got wrecked by injuries of course
 

skaz04nik

Active Member
Oct 14, 2019
124
146
What! Rarely do any PL clubs buy in January, never mind 3 or 4.
Um I thought everyone knows what "average" means and obviously summer window has much more business

Ok let me rephrase - we should have brought 5-8 players per year (summer 2018 + winter 2019) + one more in winter 2018. Which is 6-9 as I mentioned.
You could argue 1 or 2 less but it doesn't affect the message

Top PL clubs are doing business in winter when required. VVD, Sturridge and Coutinho, Laporte and G Jesus to name a few. Much less than in summer but still
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
The other reality is that in the last 10 years City & United have spent about 1 billion and 600m more than us on their 1st team squads netto and our 1st team has been running on fumes for about 18 months now!
And City didn’t need anyone as they already have two teams of top quality. United are in a bigger mess than we are.

That much isn't really relevant - people point towards the windows (where we made one less signing than City) as some sort of aberrant thing, when in reality it wasn't much of an impact.

Whether we (as a community of fans) want to accept it or not, the main issue we've had is that Poch can't pick a player and, based on ITK, has been turning down some signings. As I've said before, both Sherwood and Redknapp openly spoke about how DL was enthuastic about offering signings, so it doesn't really smell right to blame that one window for years of bad squad building, nor to free Poch of any blame for the squad he's built and the situation it's created.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
Um I thought everyone knows what "average" means and obviously summer window has much more business

Ok let me rephrase - we should have brought 5-8 players per year (summer 2018 + winter 2019) + one more in winter 2018. Which is 6-9 as I mentioned.
You could argue 1 or 2 less but it doesn't affect the message

Top PL clubs are doing business in winter when required. VVD, Sturridge and Coutinho, Laporte and G Jesus to name a few. Much less than in summer but still

There's so much evidence all the time about what happens when teams buy that many players in one go. Why do people still seriously suggest this as some sort of good idea?
 
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