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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
It was neither of their faults. Poch wanted De Jong, by all accounts Levy did ‘pony’ up the money, as De Jong himself said he had s good offer from us but felt he owed Ajax a bit more time.

Then Barca came in later on

Though all the people trying to pin this on the owners will probably say De Jong is lying as part of an anti Pochettino conspiracy...
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
We just got played off the park by fucking Brighton. Not sure how you come back from that.

We have been let down by mistakes from Levy, Poch and this group of players. Sucks that Poch likely ends up the fall guy but it just feels inevitable.

5 brilliant years where I've never been prouder of my club, now about to all go up in smoke. Heartbreaking.

I notice there is a huge ground swell on twitter in support of Poch which is great - I'd love him to turn all this around - but I just don't see how you recover from this. Poch has finally started saying the right things, but tactically we have been all over the place for 9 months, and morale is clearly an issue.
 

SpursSince1980

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2011
4,731
14,438
I’ve supported spurs since 1980. There’s been some lovely moments along the way. But that’s all they were... moments of joy, punctuating a drawn out period of inconsistency. Good at times, but never great. Occasionally reliable, but far too Spursy. Then Poch came along. Easily the best period of sustained on field success I’ve seen at the club since I was seven years old. Yes, there were no trophies to show for it. But would you trade the last five years for a random league cup or fa cup win, yet never finishing above 6th in the league?
Of course not.
It’s been a joyful period for us Spurs fans who’ve never enjoyed a stable period like this for over 30 years.
Before the start of last season, I felt we were the envy of the league and Europe too. A brilliant young coach, a team full of great players, simply short a couple of difference makers. Plus we were moving into a state of the art stadium, with a bumper deal with the NFL. The world was truly our oyster.
But then there’s the whole transfer window debacle. A World Cup hangover. A stadium delay. And a dreadful run of injuries. Combine that with a team that often looked out of sorts, and we had a recipe brewing for a bowl full of mediocrity. Much of which was obfuscated by an unlikely, dream-like CL run.
However, if you looked closely, you could see the cracks emerging and growing.
Those cracks were never properly addressed. They were ignored. So, the foundation started to crumble, as the rot settled in.
Now, we are seeing the results of this unlikely decline.
I never thought a year ago that we’d be at this point. That we’d actually be talking about Poch needing to leave. That we’d be bewildered by a recent run that has seen use lose on penalties to a league 2 team, suffer our worse ever home defeat, and now, one of the most pathetic and inept performances I think any of us has seen over the last ten years. A worrying reflection of corrosive decay.
The wheels have come off, and we are now dealing with a runaway train hurtling toward disaster. I simply cannot fathom how this precipitous decline has happened so quickly. How we have gone from a CL finalist to an insipid shell of our former selves.
There are many excuses and lots of folks responsible for this disaster. So, there is no easy fix.
So, you have to start with what is the one thing you can do now, that will shake the team out of this puerile stupor. Sadly, that starts with the manager. As we can’t swap out the team wholesale in the next three months. The ownership isn’t going anywhere any time soon. So, that leaves only one viable option. An option I didn’t expect we’d have to make a year ago. An option that seemed laughable.
He may be magic. But his bag of tricks have run out. Which means, much to my abject sorrow... he has to go.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

Didn’t Levy offer 8mil for Grealish? He was a joke that entire summer. You think it was Pochettino fault we didn’t sell anyone too?
You're backing yourself into a corner here, he turned down players (none of which we know the names of) I'd ask why we have stopped buying any youthful prospects at all - Jack Clarke being our first since Deli ... Poch has to take some of the blame, Levy and his glaringly obvious mistakes always come round in circles, but Poch has fucked himself.
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Well, no, I'm saying Hoddle said 'for a fact', that is exactly what Poch thought. Not me. Glenn Hoddle regarding Mauricio Pochetinno. Glenn Hoddle did, as a fact, say that, Poch didn't want to spend, 'for a fact'.

I included the quote. I'm not trying to be dogmatic.
I understand, but do you believe its a fact because Hoddle said it is?
 

soup

On the straightened arrow
May 26, 2004
3,494
3,592
I think it was @Spurs' Pipe Dreams who used a similar analogy in the Brexit thread regarding eating out at restaurants and I think it could apply here too, so, sorry SPD for applying it differently.

You're taking Poch out for dinner for the night, and take him to your favourite restaurant and you're paying. He's gets shown a menu and you ask him what he'd like. He says he doesn't like anything on the menu. You leave and ask him what restaurant he'd like to go to. He's not bothered. He starts to get in a bit of a mood. You take him to a new restaurant, he's still being a bit moody, and doesn't like anything on this menu either. He starts moaning to the waiter that other restaurants have food he likes, so you offer to take him there. He doesn't want to go now.

You give up and get a cab. Poch sits there in a mood, so you ask him wtf he's so moody. He says 'I'm hungry'.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
You're backing yourself into a corner here, he turned down players (none of which we know the names of) I'd ask why we have stopped buying any youthful prospects at all - Jack Clarke being our first since Deli ... Poch has to take some of the blame, Levy and his glaringly obvious mistakes always come round in circles, but Poch has fucked himself.
I’ll give him some blame but it’s not a ton. He’s had fuck all resources for years before this summer. Levy clearly hasn’t gotten rid of the players he wanted and look what’s happened.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
I’ll give him some blame but it’s not a ton. He’s had fuck all resources for years before this summer. Levy clearly hasn’t gotten rid of the players he wanted and look what’s happened.
I blame Levy for some of them, but I think Eriksen and Toby were both aiming for lucrative Bosmans anyway.
 

SuperPav10

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
338
1,212
you really believe Poch decided he didnt need any new players those two windows? I think the truth is somewhere in the middle - he wanted a cadillac but Levy would only pony up the dough for a used Ford.
It was widely reported on here that the players Poch wanted didn't want us. And historically, this has always been an issue for us. So, what do you do about that? Throw more cash at the player? Sure. Would that unsettle the squad harmony Poch worked hard to create? Absolutely.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I’ll give him some blame but it’s not a ton. He’s had fuck all resources for years before this summer. Levy clearly hasn’t gotten rid of the players he wanted and look what’s happened.
So it's now because we didn't shift the players he wanted out? Which ones? The ones who, like Vic, can just veto an offered deal and wait it out over the course of another 9 or so months? Should have sold them all 18 months ago then - then we could have all been indignant that we sell key players that Poch needs to push us on ...

Shit goes round in circles.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
3,970
6,128
So you don't think he's gotten the best out of our players over the years? Think of how much the likes of Walker, Rose, Dier, Kane, Dele, Son, Dembele etc. grew under his tutelage. Not to mention all the players who blossomed under him at Southampton. We were a cohesive, well-oiled machine in the years we pushed Leicester and Chelsea for the title. I don't think it's really within the realm of reason to suggest that Poch can't get the most out of players or that he's incapable of getting a team to play together.

All that being said it may very well be the case that things have simply gone too stale for him at Spurs and are beyond salvaging, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to be suggesting that Poch is woefully inadequate at the fundamental aspects of managing a football club.
Well, I don’t think we were ever a ‘cohesive, we’ll-oiled machine’ at any point. That’s my basic argument, so if you disagree then there’s not much value in continuing the conversation.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
Arguing whether Poch deserves time or not is pointless. In a ideal world where there are no consequences he may deserve a year.

As things stand, he has lost the dressing room. Losing the players doesn’t mean they don’t respect him ... IMO his ideas aren’t resonating with players anymore.

Only way for us under Poch is down currently. Barring a miracle , I can’t see how we will just come back like nothing happened for rest of season.

IMO , Swallow the bitter pill & part ways. There’s no redemption left here

Sadly I think I agree. Once players start looking like they’ve lost belief and hunger and the manager is publicly saying the dressing room has “different agendas” etc then I can’t think of many instances ( either at Spurs or other clubs) where the situation has been turned round.

The sad thing is, even though I had hope, I’d always had the feeling in the back of my mind that once we’d missed the opportunities to win trophies in the last few years that it would go down as the ones that got away and this team would break up with nothing to show for it. And it’s proven to be so, with the CL final the last hurrah.

Poch probably saw the same thing which might explain some of his comments, but the problem is we can’t just rip everything up and go backwards. Dropping out of the top four and probably top 6 at this rate will make rebuilding even harder.

The whole thing is a lose/lose situation for us because all the talk of Allegri/Jose/Ancelotti etc is imo going to leave people very disappointed. Top managers with proven pedigree will all want to spend money and they will not want committees, being clever in the market etc. Doesn’t matter how good our squad is on paper, managers have different ideas and want certain types of players.

The only manager with a winning pedigree I could possibly see joining us is Benitez ( who I actually wanted before we got Poch), as anything after Ashley would seem like a fairytale :D. Even he though ended up leaving Liverpool when he thought the board were interfering too much.

Personally, I am going to put some money on Eddie Howe as the next Spurs manager :(. May even do it now if the odds are decent enough.
 

Goldennugget

Ny medlem
Sep 2, 2014
30
143
I’ve supported spurs since 1980. There’s been some lovely moments along the way. But that’s all they were... moments of joy, punctuating a drawn out period of inconsistency. Good at times, but never great. Occasionally reliable, but far too Spursy. Then Poch came along. Easily the best period of sustained on field success I’ve seen at the club since I was seven years old. Yes, there were no trophies to show for it. But would you trade the last five years for a random league cup or fa cup win, yet never finishing above 6th in the league?
Of course not.
It’s been a joyful period for us Spurs fans who’ve never enjoyed a stable period like this for over 30 years.
Before the start of last season, I felt we were the envy of the league and Europe too. A brilliant young coach, a team full of great players, simply short a couple of difference makers. Plus we were moving into a state of the art stadium, with a bumper deal with the NFL. The world was truly our oyster.
But then there’s the whole transfer window debacle. A World Cup hangover. A stadium delay. And a dreadful run of injuries. Combine that with a team that often looked out of sorts, and we had a recipe brewing for a bowl full of mediocrity. Much of which was obfuscated by an unlikely, dream-like CL run.
However, if you looked closely, you could see the cracks emerging and growing.
Those cracks were never properly addressed. They were ignored. So, the foundation started to crumble, as the rot settled in.
Now, we are seeing the results of this unlikely decline.
I never thought a year ago that we’d be at this point. That we’d actually be talking about Poch needing to leave. That we’d be bewildered by a recent run that has seen use lose on penalties to a league 2 team, suffer our worse ever home defeat, and now, one of the most pathetic and inept performances I think any of us has seen over the last ten years. A worrying reflection of corrosive decay.
The wheels have come off, and we are now dealing with a runaway train hurtling toward disaster. I simply cannot fathom how this precipitous decline has happened so quickly. How we have gone from a CL finalist to an insipid shell of our former selves.
There are many excuses and lots of folks responsible for this disaster. So, there is no easy fix.
So, you have to start with what is the one thing you can do now, that will shake the team out of this puerile stupor. Sadly, that starts with the manager. As we can’t swap out the team wholesale in the next three months. The ownership isn’t going anywhere any time soon. So, that leaves only one viable option. An option I didn’t expect we’d have to make a year ago. An option that seemed laughable.
He may be magic. But his bag of tricks have run out. Which means, much to my abject sorrow... he has to go.
I need a crying emoji.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
I’ve supported spurs since 1980. There’s been some lovely moments along the way. But that’s all they were... moments of joy, punctuating a drawn out period of inconsistency. Good at times, but never great. Occasionally reliable, but far too Spursy. Then Poch came along. Easily the best period of sustained on field success I’ve seen at the club since I was seven years old. Yes, there were no trophies to show for it. But would you trade the last five years for a random league cup or fa cup win, yet never finishing above 6th in the league?
Of course not.
It’s been a joyful period for us Spurs fans who’ve never enjoyed a stable period like this for over 30 years.
Before the start of last season, I felt we were the envy of the league and Europe too. A brilliant young coach, a team full of great players, simply short a couple of difference makers. Plus we were moving into a state of the art stadium, with a bumper deal with the NFL. The world was truly our oyster.
But then there’s the whole transfer window debacle. A World Cup hangover. A stadium delay. And a dreadful run of injuries. Combine that with a team that often looked out of sorts, and we had a recipe brewing for a bowl full of mediocrity. Much of which was obfuscated by an unlikely, dream-like CL run.
However, if you looked closely, you could see the cracks emerging and growing.
Those cracks were never properly addressed. They were ignored. So, the foundation started to crumble, as the rot settled in.
Now, we are seeing the results of this unlikely decline.
I never thought a year ago that we’d be at this point. That we’d actually be talking about Poch needing to leave. That we’d be bewildered by a recent run that has seen use lose on penalties to a league 2 team, suffer our worse ever home defeat, and now, one of the most pathetic and inept performances I think any of us has seen over the last ten years. A worrying reflection of corrosive decay.
The wheels have come off, and we are now dealing with a runaway train hurtling toward disaster. I simply cannot fathom how this precipitous decline has happened so quickly. How we have gone from a CL finalist to an insipid shell of our former selves.
There are many excuses and lots of folks responsible for this disaster. So, there is no easy fix.
So, you have to start with what is the one thing you can do now, that will shake the team out of this puerile stupor. Sadly, that starts with the manager. As we can’t swap out the team wholesale in the next three months. The ownership isn’t going anywhere any time soon. So, that leaves only one viable option. An option I didn’t expect we’d have to make a year ago. An option that seemed laughable.
He may be magic. But his bag of tricks have run out. Which means, much to my abject sorrow... he has to go.
That's a bloody good post.
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
Again I don't understand why the recruitment failures have to boil down to 100% Poch's fault or 100% Levy's fault. They've both clearly contributed to the mess we're in. We don't know who Poch turned his nose up at after De Jong turned us down, but even if he should have accepted Plan B that doesn't let Levy off the hook for all of the dross he brought in for years after we started qualifying for the CL.

Regardless I find the debate to be completely academic. The real question is whether Poch (assuming he isn't sacked which isn't a safe assumption) will be able to get a response out of the players and keep his head above water until January. So far the signs are really bad, and I think his only chance is by dropping the players whose hearts aren't in it.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
It was widely reported on here that the players Poch wanted didn't want us. And historically, this has always been an issue for us. So, what do you do about that? Throw more cash at the player? Sure. Would that unsettle the squad harmony Poch worked hard to create? Absolutely.
Poch only wanted those two players? In all of world football? Im not pointing fingers at either - I think Levy tightened the purse springs and Poch got stubborn. So maybe Im pointing at both. I just dont believe Hoddle that Poch got full backing and didnt want anybody.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
Sadly I think I agree. Once players start looking like they’ve lost belief and hunger and the manager is publicly saying the dressing room has “different agendas” etc then I can’t think of many instances ( either at Spurs or other clubs) where the situation has been turned round.

The sad thing is, even though I had hope, I’d always had the feeling in the back of my mind that once we’d missed the opportunities to win trophies in the last few years that it would go down as the ones that got away and this team would break up with nothing to show for it. And it’s proven to be so, with the CL final the last hurrah.

Poch probably saw the same thing which might explain some of his comments, but the problem is we can’t just rip everything up and go backwards. Dropping out of the top four and probably top 6 at this rate will make rebuilding even harder.

The whole thing is a lose/lose situation for us because all the talk of Allegri/Jose/Ancelotti etc is imo going to leave people very disappointed. Top managers with proven pedigree will all want to spend money and they will not want committees, being clever in the market etc. Doesn’t matter how good our squad is on paper, managers have different ideas and want certain types of players.

The only manager with a winning pedigree I could possibly see joining us is Benitez ( who I actually wanted before we got Poch), as anything after Ashley would seem like a fairytale :D. Even he though ended up leaving Liverpool when he thought the board were interfering too much.

Personally, I am going to put some money on Eddie Howe as the next Spurs manager :(. May even do it now if the odds are decent enough.
Problem with Benitez is that if if you add what it would cost to compensate Poch and then Rafa's Chinese club, it would probably make the eyes water. I don't doubt that Rafa would take the job but then he would expect and need a sizeable kitty.
 

soup

On the straightened arrow
May 26, 2004
3,494
3,592
I understand, but do you believe its a fact because Hoddle said it is?

I have to say that I do. I know he can be a bit 'different' sometimes with his thinking and even maybe underlying agendas, and maybe it's because I want to believe it, but I've got no reason not to.

Said it before, loved Poch and hate all this, but I honestly think he's as much to do with the problem with Enic.

Enic and Levy are not faultless. They've caught up to an extent with wages etc., but are always playing catch-up on the field with player recruitment and contracts, they could do better also, but I do think this immediate situation we are in sits firmly on Poch's doorstep.

I would honestly look forward to the day I have to come on here with my tail between my legs and say 'I was completely wrong about Poch and I was an idiot for being so short-sighted', I would happily do so, so please earmark this post if and when it happens. Nothing would make me happier than to see that future. I just can't right now.
 

markiespurs

SC Supporter
Jul 9, 2008
11,899
15,576
I’ll give him some blame but it’s not a ton. He’s had fuck all resources for years before this summer. Levy clearly hasn’t gotten rid of the players he wanted and look what’s happened.

Can't have sympathy for Poch with this, he knew exactly how Levy operates when he joined the club.
 
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