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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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Hakkz

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Jul 6, 2012
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It’s Pochettino’s main weakness imo, the inability to change. Often it’s quite obvious that tactics or personal needs changing and he generally waits too long.
There was a bit in his book where he said something along the lines off “if you need to make changes in the 1st half or half time, how bad did you get it at the start”. I think that mentality is arrogant as even the best make mistakes, it’s about limiting them and admitting you were wrong and changing things sometimes.
I really hope he goes bad to his ethos and settles on the original 4231 system and picks a more settled line up because he hasn’t become a bad manager overnight

Funny enough, I've seen few managers fuck up their starting eleven as many times as he has. Only for him to have to change later in the game, chasing a lead.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
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What I don't get is why on Earth did Poch move away from the 4-2-3-1?!!

We were solid, consistent, played good football a lot of the time and performed brilliantly in the league over 3 seasons using it.

You have to wonder what was going through his head to change something which has been so successful for you and has given your squad consistency. Everyone knew their roles, it was very well balanced and it even got us results when we were underpar, which is a huge thing.

I literally pray every week that he realises he's made a massive mistake and reverts to the 4-2-3-1 with a DM alongside 1 of Ndombele, Winks or Sissoko.

Can't believe he's lost the plot tactically like this, he isn't a stupid man!

I wonder if it's sopmething to do with Kane - ie they don't think he can manage the lone front man role as well as he used to due to injuries/fatigue. So Poch thinks he needs 2 up front and this is his solution.
 

Timberwolf

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Jan 17, 2008
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I think he changed it as we came unstuck in a few games where teams got 11 behind the ball and Dier/Wanyama were a bit redundant.

Then we signed Sanchez, who Poch needed to shoehorn in so we went with 3 cbs. Then Dembele's decline rapidly sped up so he needed to change it up.

I can't remember for sure but didn't the diamond appear in February when we had so many injuries? He may have been forced into it? But kept persisting with it thinking it was a good idea? I can't remember when it first started appearing.

Also, remember end of 16/17 season and Poch said we needed to change? I thought at the time it was a little bizarre as I felt all we needed was better options off the bench and our style of play had been defined.
I think your post sums it all up. A lot of the changes are reactive rather than proactive. We're trying to find a system that allows us to fit Sissoko, Winks and Ndombele into the same team rather than fitting players into a proven system that works.

A pragmatist would drop Sissoko, Winks or Ndombele, (perhaps even 2 of them) and play the proven 4-2-3-1 with a DM, or at least experiment with other systems like a 4-3-3 with 2 wide forwards. Poch however seems hellbent on making the diamond work, despite the copious evidence that it's a pile of shite.
 
D

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He has to go back to the 4231 - problem is he's to stubborn to drop Winks/Sissoko, which is hurting us.

Has to go back to what worked for him for so many years with the front 4 of:
Dier - Ndombele
Eriksen - Dele - Son
--- Kane ---
 

danielneeds

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May 5, 2004
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He has to go back to the 4231 - problem is he's to stubborn to drop Winks/Sissoko, which is hurting us.

Has to go back to what worked for him for so many years with the front 4 of:
Dier - Ndombele
Eriksen - Dele - Son
--- Kane ---
The problem is that Sissoko has been a solider for him in the last 18 months. Managers are loathed to drop players who’ve been fighting for them.
 

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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The problem is that Sissoko has been a solider for him in the last 18 months. Managers are loathed to drop players who’ve been fighting for them.

Put him at RB. Reintegrate Dier alongside Ndombele/Winks (those two rotating at different times) ... And go for any of the three behind Kane.

It's it not rocket science imo.
 

midoshairband

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2006
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I wonder if it's sopmething to do with Kane - ie they don't think he can manage the lone front man role as well as he used to due to injuries/fatigue. So Poch thinks he needs 2 up front and this is his solution.

perhaps. i also wonder if the total and utter regression of Dele has added to it. perhaps he is now playing Son further up top as he's the next best reliable goalscorer after Kane. Dele isn't even getting into the positions he used to - even when not scoring, the positions he used to take up gave space for Kane and other runners (Son, Eriksen) to get chances.

i think there is a combination of Poch's bad management and lots of players dropping off a cliff edge in terms of performances and seemingly ability. in the last what, 2 years we've lost Walker, and Dembele/Rose/Dier/Eriksen/Lloris/Toby/Trippier have all had either periods of sustained crapness or started making errors they didn't before.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

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Aug 4, 2005
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So yesterday I went back and looked through most of our Premier League fixtures from last season.

He used it first against Utd at OT, with Dier DM. Now we won the match 3-0, we were unusually clinical and that probably made Poch think this is the system to use but I remember that game and we were not 3 goals better.

He then reverted back to our usual shape but went back to the diamond against Liverpool at home in mid September, which we lost 2-1. He reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the following game away to Brighton, which we won.

He brought back the diamond at home to Chelsea in late November. To me this is the only game where it really worked and biggest reason was we caught Chelsea off guard and swarmed Jorginho. We won 3-1 but should have won by more. Interesting to note that Dier was DM in this diamond so we had a bit more security about us, our diamond was Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli behind Kane and Son.

He then kept the diamond for following match, away to Scum. We lost 4-2 and to be blunt we got battered and didn't deserve anything despite leading at one point.

Didn't use the diamond again until away to Everton with no DM. We win 6-2. We were extremely clinical going forward but those who remember this game will know we went behind early and always looked vulnerable defensively. Luckily for us Everton were worse.

The first time he used the diamond against 'lesser' opponents was Wolves at home. He decided to use the diamond again with no DM. We lose 3-2 and get battered second half.

Also played the diamond at home to Man Utd and at half time we are losing 1-0, having played very poorly. We switch to 4-2-3-1 and proceed to dominate the second half but we can't find a goal and De Gea is unbelievable.

We used the diamond at home to Leicester, where we somehow beat them 3-1 despite them being superior to us.

A couple of games later we use the diamond again, this time away to Saints. We lose 2-1.

Away to Pool we use 3 atb and change it up at halftime to the diamond but we still lose 2-1.

The next time we use the diamond is at home to West Ham and we lose 1-0.

We used the diamond at home to Villa this season. We were losing until we changed to 4-2-3-1 at half time which brought about our comeback.


There is a clear correlation when looking at our bad form over the past 10/11 months and its ever since we stopped consistently playing our balanced 4-2-3-1 and started playing this diamond (or 3 atb which no longer works for us either).

As far as I could see, the only clean sheet we have kept with the diamond was the very first time we used it, away at OT.
 

Spurvert

Huge Member
Jul 10, 2011
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In game management and tactics have become terrible. We had a solid formation that worked and he changed it. If I can see it and you can see it then Poch CAN see it. Call it arrogance or stubborn or inept, it will eventually cost him his job if we keep playing this way.

4231 - try and get some players out in Jan/some in.

Hopefully it will start to look like (until we can sign/sell):

Foyth - Sanchez - Toby/Jan - Sess
Ndombele - Dier
Lucas - Lo Celso - Son
Kane

I fear that it won't, though.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
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I think he changed it as we came unstuck in a few games where teams got 11 behind the ball and Dier/Wanyama were a bit redundant.

Then we signed Sanchez, who Poch needed to shoehorn in so we went with 3 cbs. Then Dembele's decline rapidly sped up so he needed to change it up.

I can't remember for sure but didn't the diamond appear in February when we had so many injuries? He may have been forced into it? But kept persisting with it thinking it was a good idea? I can't remember when it first started appearing.

Also, remember end of 16/17 season and Poch said we needed to change? I thought at the time it was a little bizarre as I felt all we needed was better options off the bench and our style of play had been defined.

Im not that much of a fan of that because when we played it I felt teams cut straight through our midfield as they were outnumbered. I'm not sure its the right formation for us now either but I wouldn't be surprised to see Poch revert to it. Like everyone says 4231 is the answer. Its staring him in the face and if he cant see it and doesn't want to listen to his players (who are now experienced) then fuck him. He's always said he has an open door policy towards his players.....it seems thats true unless they disagree with him.

There's loads of stories hitting the press now because the results have been poor. It's the different factions jostling for positions for if it gets worse. Once we see the 3 games to save his job headlines then you know the writing is on the wall. Until then, he's safe.
 

Timberwolf

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Jan 17, 2008
10,328
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Put him at RB. Reintegrate Dier alongside Ndombele/Winks (those two rotating at different times) ... And go for any of the three behind Kane.

It's it not rocket science imo.
If we're up against a tough team we could even play Ndombele or Winks centrally in the attacking 3 to give us a bit more control. We'd still have a decent attacking threat but would have a solid defensive base to build on.

With the current system we seem completely incapable of balancing defence and attack. Against good teams we get overrun due to the lack of defensive nous in the midfield and the huge spaces left by having 2 designated forwards who don't track back much. Against poor teams we have too many non-productive midfielders so our attack is stilted, while we're also really susceptible on the break. It's the worst of both worlds
 

Betha

Active Member
Jan 6, 2015
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I can't remember for sure but didn't the diamond appear in February when we had so many injuries? He may have been forced into it? But kept persisting with it thinking it was a good idea? I can't remember when it first started appearing.

The first time I remember it being used was the home game against Chelsea in late November. That night it worked very well, just as it had for Everton the week before at Chelsea ( a game I would guess he had seen). If it were to be used against Chelsea, where Jorghinoand the systemwas still clearly a work in progress, and similar teams, it would be a nice weapon. Unfortunately, like the 3-4-2-1 whhich also worked brilliantly at times but was clearly the wrong system at other times, it's being overused.

The diamond can work, but it has to be used at the right times, and with the right players. For instance, Sarri used 4-3-1-2 in Empoli. When he took over at Napoli he also tried to play 4-3-1-2, but after 6 games or so he realised that it wasn't effective there, and switched to a 4-3-3. In general it's been used a lot in Italy, but rarely by top teams (especially lately). AC Milan is trying to play a 4-3-1-2 now, and they are struggling really bad (not necessarily just because of the formation, but still).
 

danielneeds

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May 5, 2004
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Put him at RB. Reintegrate Dier alongside Ndombele/Winks (those two rotating at different times) ... And go for any of the three behind Kane.

It's it not rocket science imo.
Maybe. But we don’t know what Dier is showing in training. Last time he played DM was at Bournemouth I think. He was a walking disaster, looked like he was running in treacle and should have sent off maybe twice.
 

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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If we're up against a tough team we could even play Ndombele or Winks centrally in the attacking 3 to give us a bit more control. We'd still have a decent attacking threat but would have a solid defensive base to build on.

With the current system we seem completely incapable of balancing defence and attack. Against good teams we get overrun due to the lack of defensive nous in the midfield and the huge spaces left by having 2 designated forwards who don't track back much. Against poor teams we have too many non-productive midfielders so our attack is stilted, while we're also really susceptible on the break. It's the worst of both worlds

Completely agree. And I especially think Ndombele could play the Eriksen role, his passing is so incisive.

Going to Anfield I'd like to see Dier and Winks in the two, and Ndombele central in the three behind Kane.

Sissoko at RB, who in turn could nullity Robertson.
 

dagraham

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Sep 20, 2005
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Maybe. But we don’t know what Dier is showing in training. Last time he played DM was at Bournemouth I think. He was a walking disaster, looked like he was running in treacle and should have sent off maybe twice.

The thing I’m asking myself is if Poch is committed to using the diamond then he must see that we have to play a proper DM at the base. And as Wanyama is broken and Dier has also been off the pace, then why didn’t Poch make signing a new DM a priority?
 

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
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Maybe. But we don’t know what Dier is showing in training. Last time he played DM was at Bournemouth I think. He was a walking disaster, looked like he was running in treacle and should have sent off maybe twice.

Yeah that's right he was, but clearly needs a run of games to get that all important rhythm going.

We know he's done very well in the past playing there so it's not like he's untested.

It's a very obvious solution that's being ignored for some bizarre reason.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
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Yeah that's right he was, but clearly needs a run of games to get that all important rhythm going.

We know he's done very well in the past playing there so it's not like he's untested.

It's a very obvious solution that's being ignored for some bizarre reason.
Yeah, it could be stubbornness, or it could be that Dier’s level has dropped dramatically. We just don’t know. Saturday’s team selection will be very telling, I think.
 

spursfan77

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Aug 13, 2005
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I wonder if it's sopmething to do with Kane - ie they don't think he can manage the lone front man role as well as he used to due to injuries/fatigue. So Poch thinks he needs 2 up front and this is his solution.

I thought this too initially and during the Leicester game I mentioned about Son doing all of Kane's running. But I don't think that's it, I think Kane just doesn't want to do the running like he used to. Watching the Southampton game and Wednesday he was much more energetic.

I've been sitting on this scenario since the start of the season. It's building up to Champions League final. Kane is injured, we all know he likes to come back from injuries quickly. But what if that's not down to him. What if it's down to Poch pushing him. He wanted Kane fit for the final but Harry wasn't. He plays 50% fit (which it looked like), has a stinker by his standards and gets panned for it. With the press blaming our performance for his involvement. Now if that had happened and it's happened a few times before then you're going to become pretty pissed off as a player. Especially when it's after the biggest game of his life.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
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So yesterday I went back and looked through most of our Premier League fixtures from last season.

He used it first against Utd at OT, with Dier DM. Now we won the match 3-0, we were unusually clinical and that probably made Poch think this is the system to use but I remember that game and we were not 3 goals better.

He then reverted back to our usual shape but went back to the diamond against Liverpool at home in mid September, which we lost 2-1. He reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the following game away to Brighton, which we won.

He brought back the diamond at home to Chelsea in late November. To me this is the only game where it really worked and biggest reason was we caught Chelsea off guard and swarmed Jorginho. We won 3-1 but should have won by more. Interesting to note that Dier was DM in this diamond so we had a bit more security about us, our diamond was Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli behind Kane and Son.

He then kept the diamond for following match, away to Scum. We lost 4-2 and to be blunt we got battered and didn't deserve anything despite leading at one point.

Didn't use the diamond again until away to Everton with no DM. We win 6-2. We were extremely clinical going forward but those who remember this game will know we went behind early and always looked vulnerable defensively. Luckily for us Everton were worse.

The first time he used the diamond against 'lesser' opponents was Wolves at home. He decided to use the diamond again with no DM. We lose 3-2 and get battered second half.

Also played the diamond at home to Man Utd and at half time we are losing 1-0, having played very poorly. We switch to 4-2-3-1 and proceed to dominate the second half but we can't find a goal and De Gea is unbelievable.

We used the diamond at home to Leicester, where we somehow beat them 3-1 despite them being superior to us.

A couple of games later we use the diamond again, this time away to Saints. We lose 2-1.

Away to Pool we use 3 atb and change it up at halftime to the diamond but we still lose 2-1.

The next time we use the diamond is at home to West Ham and we lose 1-0.

We used the diamond at home to Villa this season. We were losing until we changed to 4-2-3-1 at half time which brought about our comeback.


There is a clear correlation when looking at our bad form over the past 10/11 months and its ever since we stopped consistently playing our balanced 4-2-3-1 and started playing this diamond (or 3 atb which no longer works for us either).

As far as I could see, the only clean sheet we have kept with the diamond was the very first time we used it, away at OT.

Print that off Nick and send it in the post to Poch would you please!
 
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