Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

mrlilywhite · Oct 2, 2019

double0 said:
Your saying his tool are great but at least 3 players vital members of the team are waiting to leave on a Bosman. Trippier made all sort of allegation once he left Spurs however Poch was loyal to him and played him even though he had a poor season he admitted too.

Wanyama Vertonghen Toby Eriksen have all had problem yet Poch has kept them around the squad and played them. Sissoko was getting murdered at one point Poch stood by him and turned him around. The players have underperformed and really let him down. The only contention point was Moura not playing from the start in the CL final last season, but I can understand why Poch would put his house on Harry Kane.

I think your loyalty to Poch is blinding ignorance tbh. I think it is as plain as day that the majority, not all of the problems lie at the feet of Poch and I could go on and state the reason(s), but I have written enough about it over the two threads to make it obvious enough. I will, however, tell you how it ends in one or two scenarios - Either Poch abandons his system and finds something that works in the interim until he has time to sort out the squad to play his preferred system (unlikely, as the dressing room seems to be gone now), or Poch gets the sack. It really is as simple as that right now. He has no more than a couple of games to turn things around imho.

mrlilywhite · Oct 2, 2019

double0 said:
Was he lying? The players offered to him weren't of the required standard

No Poch wanted players that were unobtainable, and if he couldn't get those he wanted no one. By unobtainable that could mean the selling club didn't want to sell, the player didn't want to come or we just didn't have the money to get his targets. In football that is life, so naturally any other manager would have gone "ok, who can we get then?" and just signed the next best thing, but not Poch apparently..

TropicalYid · Oct 2, 2019

The last couple of weeks I have been having some sort of awakening regarding Poch.
Of course I acknowledge what hes done at our club from arrival. But that doesnt give him any free pass. That goes for all managers.
We have to look at the abysmal form and results in 2019. We are out of form and have been for some time.
Our aggressiveness, that we were known for, i gone. Our tactic and play in general is questionalble. Its definitely not working. And Poch seems to be clueless on how to change things.
Players unhappy.
Maybe we have a problem with an aging defense?
We want to be a top club. We are well on our way. This shit thats happening now can set us years back.

So im not saying sack him today, im just saying he needs to get things right fast. Very fast. Hes not bigger that our club.

(and the people giving levy the blame here....come on)

Thewobbler · Oct 2, 2019

mrlilywhite said:
Dybala was just an opportune moment that presented itself and I for one can understand exactly why that didn't happen. Poch went a season without buying anyone because he said that there were no players they could get that would strengthen the team.

Something about his image rights made the deal difficult

robin09 · Oct 2, 2019

mrlilywhite said:
No Poch wanted players that were unobtainable, and if he couldn't get those he wanted no one. By unobtainable that could mean the selling club didn't want to sell, the player didn't want to come or we just didn't have the money to get his targets. In football that is life, so naturally any other manager would have gone "ok, who can we get then?" and just signed the next best thing, but not Poch apparently..

You should really caveat this paragraph with 'I've made this up' so that people are aware of its factual accuracy.

glacierSpurs · Oct 2, 2019

Waiting for breaking news on Poch walks.

But still thinks Brighton game will be Poch last if he's getting the chop or if walks, to have enough time for new candidate to sort things out during the international break.

Metalhead · Oct 2, 2019

glacierSpurs said:
Waiting for breaking news on Poch walks.

But still thinks Brighton game will be Poch last if he's getting the chop or if walks, to have enough time for new candidate to sort things out during the international break.

I'm still not entirely sure that it has reached that point for DL or Poch.

jonnyrotten · Oct 2, 2019

Heartening to see the majority still want him to stay. People are more vocal when they are negative - the silent majority don't want him gone.

mrlilywhite · Oct 2, 2019

robin09 said:
You should really caveat this paragraph with 'I've made this up' so that people are aware of its factual accuracy.

Well that was the crux of the ITk that we got on it, so take it up with them.

Japhet · Oct 2, 2019

I don't want him to go - I want him to change. If particular players are causing unrest, sideline them. The diamond formation is causing problems and players are beginning to speak out, so bin it. Try something different - don't expect to get a different result from doing the same things that have landed us where we are. Levy must be getting very twitchy now so Poch needs to take some tough decisions and get on with the job he's paid a fucking fortune to do.

Johnny J · Oct 2, 2019

He can go. I'm not sure how much worse things need to get before Levy realises we've been going downhill since at least last Christmas, and there are no signs of improvement.

We've just lost to fucking Colchester and let in SEVEN goals at home against Bayern. It's completely unacceptable, as is Poch's constant fucking drama. I fear that ever since his book he's been high on his own supply.

soup · Oct 2, 2019

double0 said:
Ask yourself a question. Has Poch been backed in the transfer market. Secondly the players downing tools are obviously players seeing there contracts out and ones Poch wanted to sell...but hey Levy is Levy. You bring any manager in now he'll still have to shift a lot of player imo

Probably not to the extent he's have liked, but who is apart from Pep? Definitely to an extent where he's been able to turn down players. Hoddle said earlier in the year that he had money to spend but didn't want to spend it, and then reiterated 3 times 'for a fact'. That was then backed up by various ITK, yet we still have half of SC putting their fingers in their ears and going lalalala.

Add to the fact that our chairman probably thought it was best to build a stadium for long term planning rather than spunk another 20-30 million on players Poch doesn't like and wouldn't even play. I'd have done the same.

At this rate, forget about players who are out of contract, worry about the players who do have contracts, like Kane, Alli etc., if this continues you'll have even more reasons to worry about filling the squad when they decide we're not good enough anymore and move on. Then not only will we have to find new players for Toby, Verts etc., but also the rest of the team who've just had enough of Poch. See Trix ITK.

I honestly believe he IS just a motivator and we've had the best squad in his term for years. As others have said, this team would have won the league under Klopp.

jurgen · Oct 2, 2019

I can’t actually believe that our CL run is being used to bash him with, especially as he chose to bring on Llorente who helped cause Ajax to shit the bed. You can’t just highlight our bad halves of football in that tie and ignore the good ones.

But aside from that it’s the first time we ever reached that final.. our best team ever never managed that. Honestly I find it a sad indictment of modern fans that it has been swept away so quickly. But that’s football in 2019 I guess.

Klopp got drilled in a final the year before and then they won it the year after. Yes it’s not working out like that at the moment for us and there seems to be some big issues but the season isn’t over yet despite what some are saying.

ITK says Levy won’t change his ways so that means whoever we replaced him with will have the same issues and that final step is going to be nearly impossible as a result. Unless we go for a League/FA cup which many supporters have said is beneath us now, precisely because of the league finishes and status we have got used to under Poch.

In true BSoDL style all I can say is be careful what you wish for.

double0 · Oct 2, 2019

mrlilywhite said:
I think your loyalty to Poch is blinding ignorance tbh. I think it is as plain as day that the majority, not all of the problems lie at the feet of Poch and I could go on and state the reason(s), but I have written enough about it over the two threads to make it obvious enough. I will, however, tell you how it ends in one or two scenarios - Either Poch abandons his system and finds something that works in the interim until he has time to sort out the squad to play his preferred system (unlikely, as the dressing room seems to be gone now), or Poch gets the sack. It really is as simple as that right now. He has no more than a couple of games to turn things around imho.

Ignorance yeah right mate...my loyalty will always be to the club. Your so clued up coming out with your two scenario how very knowledgeable you are.

soup · Oct 2, 2019

jurgen said:
I can’t actually believe that our CL run is being used to bash him with, especially as he chose to bring on Llorente who helped cause Ajax to shit the bed. You can’t just highlight our bad halves of football in that tie and ignore the good ones.

But aside from that it’s the first time we ever reached that final.. our best team ever never managed that. Honestly I find it a sad indictment of modern fans that it has been swept away so quickly. But that’s football in 2019 I guess.

Klopp got drilled in a final the year before and then they won it the year after. Yes it’s not working out like that at the moment for us and there seems to be some big issues but the season isn’t over yet despite what some are saying.

ITK says Levy won’t change his ways so that means whoever we replaced him with will have the same issues and that final step is going to be nearly impossible as a result. Unless we go for a League/FA cup which many supporters have said is beneath us now, precisely because of the league finishes and status we have got used to under Poch.

In true BSoDL style all I can say is be careful what you wish for.

Bastard Son of Daniel Levy is a derogatory term isn't it? Is everyone else just a Bastard Son of Mauricio Pochettino?

Japhet · Oct 2, 2019

Johnny J said:
He can go. I'm not sure how much worse things need to get before Levy realises we've been going downhill since at least last Christmas, and there are no signs of improvement.

We've just lost to fucking Colchester and let in SEVEN goals at home against Bayern. It's completely unacceptable, as is Poch's constant fucking drama. I fear that ever since his book he's been high on his own supply.

If Bayern had put 7 past us and we hadn't had a sniff, I'd agree with you. But the fact is, we could (probably should) have had 5, and if a couple of those had gone in it could have been a very different game. The wheels came off when we tried to chase it.

double0 · Oct 2, 2019

soup said:
Probably not to the extent he's have liked, but who is apart from Pep? Definitely to an extent where he's been able to turn down players. Hoddle said earlier in the year that he had money to spend but didn't want to spend it, and then reiterated 3 times 'for a fact'. That was then backed up by various ITK, yet we still have half of SC putting their fingers in their ears and going lalalala.

Add to the fact that our chairman probably thought it was best to build a stadium for long term planning rather than spunk another 20-30 million on players Poch doesn't like and wouldn't even play. I'd have done the same.

At this rate, forget about players who are out of contract, worry about the players who do have contracts, like Kane, Alli etc., if this continues you'll have even more reasons to worry about filling the squad when they decide we're not good enough anymore and move on. Then not only will we have to find new players for Toby, Verts etc., but also the rest of the team who've just had enough of Poch. See Trix ITK.

I honestly believe he IS just a motivator and we've had the best squad in his term for years. As others have said, this team would have won the league under Klopp.

We all knew Poch had money to spend but were the right players available? It took an age to shift the last batch... Again Liverpool was the example of waiting for the right players. Are you sure Klopp would win the league with this squad. He couldn’t do that with a better squad last season.

andy00900 · Oct 2, 2019

I'm not confident a manager can come in and last the 20/21 season if/when JV, TA and CE leave on frees, leaving us needing a new back 4(at least 2 starters) new defensive mid and an attacking player. Even on the optimistic scale thats going to be £250m spend in the next two windows. From the players that need shifting surely will not fetch more than £100m. Can the club afford and find the players for replacements? Will new signings be tempted by "the project" anymore if results continue?

Most clubs would sack Poch right now and give the new manager a load of cash but we need too much done to it. I have far more confidence in Poch than the unknown especially given how far he has taken us on a shoestring budget till now but his attitude in the media is worrying.

Having said that, results really need to improve or it will probably force Levys hand.

mrlilywhite · Oct 2, 2019

double0 said:
Ignorance yeah right mate...my loyalty will always be to the club. Your so clued up coming out with your two scenario how very knowledgeable you are.

I don't know about you fella, but watching my team get destroyed and by the biggest ever defeat at in our history makes me look very carefully at why and look at likely culprits and see if there are trends that have been appearing over a set period of time and low and behold there is, only I see one main person at fault, but you crack on and support your club or is it, manager, I'm not sure? Either way, it's nice to know we are all singing the same tune and that we want the best for our club.

I didn't actually think I was that clever tbh, as I thought the likely scenarios were pretty obvious - thanks anyway

double0 · Oct 2, 2019

mrlilywhite said:
No Poch wanted players that were unobtainable, and if he couldn't get those he wanted no one. By unobtainable that could mean the selling club didn't want to sell, the player didn't want to come or we just didn't have the money to get his targets. In football that is life, so naturally any other manager would have gone "ok, who can we get then?" and just signed the next best thing, but not Poch apparently..

That was the right thing to do at the time.. We got to a CL final however once we did enter the transfer market he brought quality but not enough for whatever reason quality over quantity generally is the correct thing to do.

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