Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

-Afri-Coy- · Dec 30, 2022

McFlash said:
Ah mate sorry to hear that.
I still think we should have a mass unbanning as we've lost many decent posters from that section.
I understand the need to ban but some appear a bit harsh, compared to others.

Not to derail the thread but it happens from time to time, when that amnesty hearing comes around just know AC loves a good gawk gawk, I’ve been banned before but I’m not anymore so I speak from experience. It’s possible. Just NEVER pm and ask, wait for the thread to be opened for requests.

rossdapep · Dec 30, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Honestly, this is so glaringly obvious, it frustrates the fuck out of me that people either can’t or don’t want to see it. For all the faults of the club and the obvious limitations of some of the players, there is still so much in Conte’s control that he’s not doing a great job of. According to way too many on here, he has zero responsibility and every justification for us looking as poor as we currently do. How can that be

Yes if we spend an unlimited amount of money to get him everything he wants, and no players ever make mistakes, then there’s a greater chance we’ll be a lot better under him. But if these are the only conditions he’s able to improve the team under, then is he really the manager we thought we were getting?

Rather than constantly moaning about what he doesn’t have, he really needs to start doing better with what he does have. All these excuses start to look pretty pathetic when Eddie Howe has Newcastle ahead of us with half the number of goals conceded while Arsenal are pretty much uncatchable from our perspective with just over a third of the season played. There are no excuses good enough for such a swing between ourselves and them in such a short period.

Disagree with some of this and it's more complex than a simple comparison.

Eddie Howe has been able to lift Newcastle based around a nucleus of new players - Trippier, Burn, Botman, Bruno, Pope - combining this with Joelinton and Almiron's realisation that they are good players plus the backing from the owners has provided new energy and belief.

Arteta has had three years and bit by bit has assembled the team in his style, with youth and energy, kicking out the egos/high earners along the way. Also, did Arteta not sign Willian, Cedric, Mari and a few others, as well as make PEA captain, only for form to get even worse initially? Arteta hit horrendous runs of form and had plenty of games where they looked clueless.

Conte hasn't had that new energy nor has he had ample time to really sort the core of the team out. Dier, Davies, Sanchez, Doherty, Emerson, Sessegnon make up the core of the defence and he still has to rely on that base, especially with Romero having been out for some time.

Howe and Arteta have both restructured their foundations/defences;
Arsenal - Gabriel, Saliba, White, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale
Newcastle - Trippier, Pope, Botman, Burn

Conte has boosted our scoring, that isn't a major problem but we are suffering because the foundations have not been restructured to fit his style. Not only that but these faces have been here for ages and have hit that reset button so many times now.

Conte has got the last bit of juice squeezed out of them. It's time for some new faces at the back.

cliff jones · Dec 30, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Well yes, that's usually how it works. A manager comes in, and for the most part has to work with the players already there. He joined us just over a year ago, and in that time has had Romero, Kulusevski, Bentancur, Richarlison, Lenglet, Perisic and Bissouma to work with that our previous managers didn't (I know Romero came in a couple of months before Conte did).

in that time, we've also gotten rid of Ndombele, Lo Celso, Alli, Reguilon, Bergwijn, Winks. That's 7 first-team level players in and 6 players considered deadwood in 13 months. That's not to talk about players like Spence, Sarr and Gil who he clearly doesn't fancy. How many other managers get that kind of backing straight off the bat? Is there still work to do? Of course there is. It's a work in progress. But where is this core of players that have been letting the side down over the tenure of successive managers? It doesn't exist anymore. There's Sanchez, Dier, Davies and Lucas Moura. If we're being creative, we can add Doherty who has been here just over 2 years to that list. And if you're struggling for names, then we can perhaps also include 22 year old Sessegnon and 23 year old Tanganga. And that's where it ends.

I'm very much still Conte in, but to claim he's being given mission impossible to do is demonstrably ridiculous.

another good post but you literally just named the core of players you said didn’t exist?

Dier, Sanchez and I feel to a slightly lesser extent Davies are, alongside his preference for Emerson, precisely what needs to be addressed in this window.

What would you like Conte to have done differently with his current crop, with the injuries we’ve had? I’d agree if you wanted to see Spence…

Archibald&Crooks · Dec 30, 2022

worcestersauce said:
Cheers McFlash I'm still banned from that since last summer.

You were banned for (more than once) taking the thread off topic, culminating in your dissection of Sanchez's ability finally awarding you a tap with the fuckoffstick.

Happy to lift that, but you should know that that's your one life used up.

McFlash said:
Ah mate sorry to hear that.
I still think we should have a mass unbanning as we've lost many decent posters from that section.
I understand the need to ban but some appear a bit harsh, compared to others.

It all depends how much of a cock someone was to get themselves banned.

FYI, you too are on your last life, you know that. I'm such a softy/powermadbastard/nazi...................Where does that sit in the table of harshness?

Pro tip for the peasantry: don't take the piss straight after we've asked people not to. That'll get you at least ten lube free inches eased in

McFlash · Dec 30, 2022

-Afri-Coy- said:
Not to derail the thread but it happens from time to time, when that amnesty hearing comes around just know AC loves a good gawk gawk, I’ve been banned before but I’m not anymore so I speak from experience. It’s possible. Just NEVER pm and ask, wait for the thread to be opened for requests.

Yeah, I got banned once for one post that was directly mentioning itk.
I think A&C was pissed off and blanket banned a load of people, I got caught in the crossfire.

I'm not too proud to say that I did beg a bit but I'm always so careful in there, I was actually pretty pissed that I'd been banned when I hadn't broken any rule.
If I'm a dick and get banned, then fair play but that's the one place I try my hardest not to be a dick! ?

Archibald&Crooks · Dec 30, 2022

McFlash said:
that's the one place I try my hardest not to be a dick! ?

And fail miserably :LOL:

Wig · Dec 30, 2022

Archibald&Crooks said:
You were banned for (more than once) taking the thread off topic, culminating in your dissection of Sanchez's ability finally awarding you a tap with the fuckoffstick.

Happy to lift that, but you should know that that's your one life used up.

It all depends how much of a cock someone was to get themselves banned.

FYI, you too are on your last life, you know that. I'm such a softy/powermadbastard/nazi...................Where does that sit in the table of harshness?

Pro tip for the peasantry: don't take the piss straight after we've asked people not to. That'll get you at least ten lube free inches eased in

Love the banstick-avoiding tips, though no idea how you can remember how each member received their bans.

McFlash · Dec 30, 2022

Archibald&Crooks said:
You were banned for (more than once) taking the thread off topic, culminating in your dissection of Sanchez's ability finally awarding you a tap with the fuckoffstick.

Happy to lift that, but you should know that that's your one life used up.

It all depends how much of a cock someone was to get themselves banned.

FYI, you too are on your last life, you know that. I'm such a softy/powermadbastard/nazi...................Where does that sit in the table of harshness?

Pro tip for the peasantry: don't take the piss straight after we've asked people not to. That'll get you at least ten lube free inches eased in

Fair enough, I know how much work you have to put into the place and how much it winds you up.
I had considered volunteering to try and help out in that section this window but was a bit too much of a coward to stick my head above the parapets!

Was it my 'clam' joke?

Archibald&Crooks · Dec 30, 2022

Wig said:
Love the banstick-avoiding tips, though no idea how you can remember how each member received their bans.

I have a list which I try to keep up to date but sadly, some people get missed off. I try my best but as much as this is unbelievable, I fuck up sometimes. Well, a lot actually.

DiVaio · Dec 30, 2022

jurgen said:
Both were an issue, it's not either or.

Two players that joined us from two of the most attacking and ball dominant clubs in 18/19, that are much better with the ball and after few months they were supposed to play in counter-attacking style under manager that basically didn't improve anyone here when he was at Spurs, except Skipp who did it because he was on loan.
For some weird reason, in Napoli/Lyon and Villarreal with a better system and manager, they are again playing very good.

Bluto Blutarsky · Dec 30, 2022

I'm tired of the complaints about the football under Conte. I get that its not everyone's cup of tea, but it ignores a lot of facts just to complain.

We have scored 33 goals in 16 games - the most ever by any Spurs team after 16 games.

And, we have done this in spite of Sonny being in the worst patch of form in his career. We have also missed out on Kulusevski - who his critical to both our attack and transition - for a long, busy stretch - he has only started 8 games. Our shiny new signing - Richarlison - has only started 5 games. We miss both of them when they are out - for the energy they bring - on both sides of the ball.

But, I can hear it now: "Bluto, we have conceded 23 goals - and Conte is supposed to be a defensive whiz!" And, we have also missed our best defender in Romero, who has started only 7 games. Its hard to build consistency in defense without your best defender.

I know that every team has to deal with injuries - some more than others. But all of these posts that expect Conte to get more from this team are laughable. We don't have the depth - particularly when we went a stretch without Deki, Richarlison, and Lucas - our top-3 options at a single position. Conte has tried various formations/tactics to account for the missing players - but frankly when our starters are out, the drop-off is too big when the back-ups have to play.

Conte has not forgotten how to coach. He is getting the maximum he can, given the players he has available. If we can get a stretch where we remain relatively healthy, add a couple of quality players in January, we will see the rewards.

But, stop with the "Conte should be getting more" rubbish.

Cochraam · Dec 30, 2022

Frozen_Waffles said:
It's been said many a time and it has to be said again, poch, hitchen and whoever our scouts were from that time period (2016-paratici) should never work in football again.

Never at any club has there been a 0% success rate of signings for such a long time period. Our last success (pre paratici) were son and alderweireld and that was ages ago.

Hindsight shows what a good management job poch and José did with such absolute awful signings. (Even if they might have been part of the problem with the signings)

Levy won the lottery with paratici, god knows where we would be without him. The football on show with conte has been worse getting worser, but at least I like the players now. Sign some fucking quality centre backs and a rwb, add udogie to the mix and let's see what happens.

If it gets to next season and we have the upgrades and we are still being served this dogshit football, then get rid of conte. It won't matter too much, because at least our squad will be good and we won't need a miracle worker.

Not sure what all the drama is about a new conte contract, it means fuck all anyway. If he is happy and spurs are happy then he stays another year.

What is vital is we keep paratici on as at least he can spot a footballer and give him the money to keep making the signings he has been.

It really is shocking to look at the history of our transfers from summer 2015 when we brought in Son and Alderweireld to now. Obviously we had the three windows where we only brought in Lucas, followed by the disastrous summer of Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, and Clarke. But even our more active windows were bad. Wanyama was a good player and Hojberg has been a consistent starter since he came in in the summer of 2020, but those are our only players who really went into the starting XI from the January 2016 window until Paratici got here in 2021.

Transfers are often more hit and miss than people think (for all clubs), but that's a truly appalling and shocking period. Overall, I have a lot more confidence in Paratici since he seems to be mostly identifying good players and has brought in four players who have improved our best XI (Deki, Bentancur, Romero, Perisic), other players that seem of the required quality to regularly start (Richarlison, Bissouma), and lots of talent for the future (Gil, Sarr, Spence, Udogie).

My point ultimately is that we need some patience. I think Conte and Paratici can identify and recruit the right players most of the time, but we're still climbing out of the hole we created from a 5 year run of poor transfer activity. Pushing for some stability by backing Conte and getting him to sign at least for next season would help.

Cochraam · Dec 30, 2022

Bluto Blutarsky said:
I'm tired of the complaints about the football under Conte. I get that its not everyone's cup of tea, but it ignores a lot of facts just to complain.

We have scored 33 goals in 16 games - the most ever by any Spurs team after 16 games.

And, we have done this in spite of Sonny being in the worst patch of form in his career. We have also missed out on Kulusevski - who his critical to both our attack and transition - for a long, busy stretch - he has only started 8 games. Our shiny new signing - Richarlison - has only started 5 games. We miss both of them when they are out - for the energy they bring - on both sides of the ball.

But, I can hear it now: "Bluto, we have conceded 23 goals - and Conte is supposed to be a defensive whiz!" And, we have also missed our best defender in Romero, who has started only 7 games. Its hard to build consistency in defense without your best defender.

I know that every team has to deal with injuries - some more than others. But all of these posts that expect Conte to get more from this team are laughable. We don't have the depth - particularly when we went a stretch without Deki, Richarlison, and Lucas - our top-3 options at a single position. Conte has tried various formations/tactics to account for the missing players - but frankly when our starters are out, the drop-off is too big when the back-ups have to play.

Conte has not forgotten how to coach. He is getting the maximum he can, given the players he has available. If we can get a stretch where we remain relatively healthy, add a couple of quality players in January, we will see the rewards.

But, stop with the "Conte should be getting more" rubbish.

I agree with this. To me we're not that far off from being a really good team. We're creating good chances and scoring well, even with all the caveats you note with Son and Deki. The defense is in a bad patch, but I think our resilience to come back into games is a really good sign; to me that means Conte and the players are still fighting and believe in each other, so it's not like the last days under Jose or Poch when it seemed like the locker room was lost and the players weren't trying. As you say, a couple players in, some good news on the health front, and we could really hit a string of good results, I think.

Metalhead · Dec 30, 2022

Cochraam said:
It really is shocking to look at the history of our transfers from summer 2015 when we brought in Son and Alderweireld to now. Obviously we had the three windows where we only brought in Lucas, followed by the disastrous summer of Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, and Clarke. But even our more active windows were bad. Wanyama was a good player and Hojberg has been a consistent starter since he came in in the summer of 2020, but those are our only players who really went into the starting XI from the January 2016 window until Paratici got here in 2021.

Transfers are often more hit and miss than people think (for all clubs), but that's a truly appalling and shocking period. Overall, I have a lot more confidence in Paratici since he seems to be mostly identifying good players and has brought in four players who have improved our best XI (Deki, Bentancur, Romero, Perisic), other players that seem of the required quality to regularly start (Richarlison, Bissouma), and lots of talent for the future (Gil, Sarr, Spence, Udogie).

My point ultimately is that we need some patience. I think Conte and Paratici can identify and recruit the right players most of the time, but we're still climbing out of the hole we created from a 5 year run of poor transfer activity. Pushing for some stability by backing Conte and getting him to sign at least for next season would help.

Oh to have a prime Alderweireld and Vertonghen now.

robhumphreys · Dec 30, 2022

djhotspur said:
I mean let’s compare artetas first full season to conte… when arteta finished 8th. Arteta is in his 4th season for gods sake.

Thats 100% correct
Here's a fact. With our fanbase Arteta would have been sacked 18 months in. All we look to do is get rid of the manager. I can't believe that anyone seriously wants Conte gone. I just want us to provide some proof that we will actually back him so he signs a new deal

Clockspur · Dec 30, 2022

Cochraam said:
I agree with this. To me we're not that far off from being a really good team. We're creating good chances and scoring well, even with all the caveats you note with Son and Deki. The defense is in a bad patch, but I think our resilience to come back into games is a really good sign; to me that means Conte and the players are still fighting and believe in each other, so it's not like the last days under Jose or Poch when it seemed like the locker room was lost and the players weren't trying. As you say, a couple players in, some good news on the health front, and we could really hit a string of good results, I think.

Yep, the last 10 games of last season we were playing the best football in the league and slaughtering sides

A Bit Much · Dec 30, 2022

Clockspur said:
Yep, the last 10 games of last season we were playing the best football in the league and slaughtering sides

This is an important point. However we can't gloss over this season (a longer sample) where IMO we've been unimpressive nearly every week. It also explains why people are frustrated - we clearly can play much better and I thought this term was going to be special after how brilliantly Conte did last season.

-Afri-Coy- · Dec 30, 2022

Archibald&Crooks said:
You were banned for (more than once) taking the thread off topic, culminating in your dissection of Sanchez's ability finally awarding you a tap with the fuckoffstick.

Happy to lift that, but you should know that that's your one life used up.

It all depends how much of a cock someone was to get themselves banned.

FYI, you too are on your last life, you know that. I'm such a softy/powermadbastard/nazi...................Where does that sit in the table of harshness?

Pro tip for the peasantry: don't take the piss straight after we've asked people not to. That'll get you at least ten lube free inches eased in

You’re a very generous God, I expect these peasants to offer you some pleasantries for your grace.

-Afri-Coy- · Dec 30, 2022

A Bit Much said:
This is an important point. However we can't gloss over this season (a longer sample) where IMO we've been unimpressive nearly every week. It also explains why people are frustrated - we clearly can play much better and I thought this term was going to be special after how brilliantly Conte did last season.

Unimpressive to some? Maybe. But that’s personal preference.

The fact is we’ve scored 33 goals in 16 games and as pointed out above that’s the most by any spurs team after 16 games.

I think the negatives are being well over exaggerated here.

THE SPURSBOY · Dec 30, 2022

-Afri-Coy- said:
Unimpressive to some? Maybe. But that’s personal preference.

The fact is we’ve scored 33 goals in 16 games and as pointed out above that’s the most by any spurs team after 16 games.

I think the negatives are being well over exaggerated here.

Is this figure though because in most games we go behind sometimes by 2 goals and have to go all out to score min 2 goals for points

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